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Malaysian Airline didn’t buy cheap upgrade that ‘could have found lost jet’

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Apparently the Malaysian Airline did not purchase a service package that costs about $10 per flight that would have provided data on MH370's location even if the transponder is shut down. Reportedly the system's use is mandatory on planes flying in the North Atlantic corridor between the Europe and the US but not on other plane routes. Does anyone know if ATC can monitor whether or not the system is activated on international inbound US flights approaching from Asia, South America or over the… (nypost.com) Mais...

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LVMan777
Operator Benefits of Future Air Navigation System

...through a satellite data link, airplanes equipped with FANS can transmit automatic dependent surveillance reports with actual position and intent information at least every five minutes. The position is based on the highly accurate Global Positioning System (GPS).

....777 includes FANS 1 as a basic feature, as of press time,

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_02/textonly/fo02txt.html
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
This FANS info page is from 1997 or earlier. Sounds like Boeing's incarnation of plane-side of NextGen technology. But the page does explain much of the technology clearly.

Much of the novelty at the time was from using satellites to accurately triangulate a precise location for each plane/ handheld device.

But for data transmission, ADS-B can be 'sent by satellite or radio waves'. While radio waves will work in the same areas roughly where radar can be captured (ie. over land or just off shore). Far out in the middle of the world's oceans and/or polar regions, some kind of long range communications like satellite comm would be necessary for anyone not on the plane to know where the plane is located.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Was FANS available for the 777 in 2002 when the missing aircraft rolled off the line?
Wayne47
Unless a 777 and similar class aircraft have this capability fully functional they should not be allowed into US controlled airspace.
Derg
Roland Dent 2
I remember well when Lufthansa ripped out all the standard issue avionics hardware and software in the Boeings. They found a link where Seattle could intervene into the FMS and take over the flight. Replaced it all with home grown Siemens and Lufthansa specific software. They never flickered at how much this cost..
rebelx4xchrist
Paul Smith 2
is there a source for this?
PLANESOLUTIONS
PLANESOLUTIONS 1
So Boeing could "take over" the flight and land it somewhere else? It's amazing that the media has missed this!
SootBox
SootBox 2
The lawsuits that Malaysia Air is going to pay out would cover these costs for a century or two for all their planes.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Isn't that the truth.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
They'd be paying either way.
Carvalho7
I was finally able to get a link to the Planefinder.net website where the Malaysian FL 370 was recorded and I am providing a link below for your review. From what I see the Aircraft varnished in the center of Malaysia and not over the NE Coast as indicated, which means that the transponder was shot off prior to leaving the coast of Malaysia. See link below: After the page loads you would see a window popping up with the record of the flight just cancel that popup by clicking on the x and you would see the flight with a trail from takeoff point while the aircraft is moving till it varnishes just NE of Pahang over Malaysia.

http://planefinder.net/flight/MAS370/time/2014-03-07T16:50:00%20UTC


Regards,

Charles Carvalho
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Wow Charles that is some tool...so they get up to cruise specs and then it just stops. Why were they at 27 and a half for so long? What was going on on that flight deck that delayed the ascent? That captain had 35 years service and over 30k hours. Seems to me he held the plane level while something was going on.
ggraysonlv
Pray tell, why on earth should this be an optional purchase. Spending multi-millions of dollars on a large passenger jet, and then nickel & diming the buyer with these low-priced "services" is pure BS. The airplane mfgr is to blame, IMO, for allowing this plane (any passenger jet) to be sold without having this included as part of the "standard equipment". Shame on regulators for not seeing this possible adverse outcome.
Derg
Roland Dent 2
Glenn they don't let them into the western airports unless they conform to minimum standards..FAA sets the standards. Check out where this airline operates..betya it is mostly in the far east. I doubt if Australia would let them in either. I have not checked though.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
Pray tell because the idea sits somewhere between astronomically expensive and completely impossible?
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 0
Somebody had to pay the on-going satellite transmission fees for years agree an airline take delivery of the plane. It's not clear that a manufacturer should have an ongoing operational cost when the airline is the operator. Should the manufacturers be on the hook for the cost of fuel for the entire life of the plane. How about repairs and replacement parts. Maybe the manufacturer should have to pay for all repairs and parts for as long as the plane continues to fly, whether the airline wants to pay for the warranty service fee or not.

It's a $250M plane, how can the manufacturer not be responsible for maintaining it in an airworthy condition or decades fate transferring ownership and possession to the airline that is operating the plane.

/end sarcasm/

Regulators can choose to insist that airlines maintain location transmitting equipment that is not possible to turn off, or not.

But if regulators don't choose to insist, it completely up to the operator which operating expenses are paid for or not.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 0
* Somebody has to pay the on-going satellite transmission fees for years AFTER an airline takes delivery of the plane.

It's a $250M plane. Should the manufacturer be responsible for maintaining the plane in an airworthy condition for decades AFTER transferring ownership and possession to the airline that is operating the plane, and collecting the revenue stream of transferring pasengers and cargo?
monstrok
John Clark 1
Should an auto manufacturer be responsible for paying for your OnStar usage for the life of your car? What consumer would pay for a smartphone data package in a region without 3G/4G/LTE coverage? Those are service options for the consumer of these products. Swift is a service option for an airline, the consumer of an aircraft manufacturing company. What readers may not realize is that there are many routes flown by airlines with very poor or no satellite coverage. Somehow an assumption by the writer and many readers of the referenced article that Swift is a perfect system and works everywhere around the globe. An assumption was also made that Malaysia Airlines should have known their airplane would go missing and therefore should have installed this system before the event.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
I think you may have misread his post- he was clarifying the earlier comment delineated by sarcasm font emulator.

Thanks for the expansion on Swift information for the wider audience.
monstrok
John Clark 1
Sarcasm mode noted. Response was to the first poster on the thread.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Oops, by bad sorry.
Thanks on the Swift info was not included in the sarcasm.
We really need a sarcasm font around here.
joel
wopri
Sorry Michael Townsley, the two posts below were not about your squawk, but I posted them on Chris B's and Matt Jensen's squawks. I have no idea how they ended up here.
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
That happens when duplicate squawks are merged into one. The comments carry over.
yr2012
matt jensen 1
A lot of mine have gone missing lately. When I posted this the first time, it disappeared . When I re-posted it, there was no indication that Chris B. had already posted it. Too weird
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Now just what are you insinuating matt?

[This poster has been suspended.]

PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 7
William Bennett is a fake profile controlled by:

Imran Hafeez (Roomee) Panhwar
36- Asif Block, Allama Iqbal Town, Lahore Street No # 7  
Lahore
Punjab 54000
Pakistan
+92.3134511929

..in order to promote his own website, where photos and reporting that are stolen from real news sites are copied without attribution for the plagiarized content.
Wayne47
Yes very suspicious William Bennett just joined Flight Aware 9 days ago.
yr2012
matt jensen 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Malaysia Airlines did not buy the upgrade

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, which disappeared March 8, lacked a simple computer upgrade that could have made a world of difference by providing crucial satellite data to the unprecedented international search effort, which entered its thirteenth day Thursday.

http://www.ibtimes.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-did-not-have-11-computer-upgrade-could-have-provided-key-satellite
nasdisco
Chris B -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Malaysia Airlines didn’t buy computer upgrade that could have given data on missing flight

A simple computer upgrade that Malaysia Airlines decided not to purchase would have provided critical information to help find the airliner that disappeared 12 days ago.

The upgrade, which wholesales for about $10 per flight, would have provided investigators with the direction, speed and altitude of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 even after other communications from the plane went dark, said a satellite industry official familiar with the equipment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/malaysia-airlines-didnt-buy-computer-upgrade-that-could-have-given-data-on-missing-flight/2014/03/19/40e2484c-af7c-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html

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