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  • 35

Delta shoots down Boeing’s CSeries dumping claim

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Delta Air Lines shot down Boeing’s claim that Bombardier “dumped” the CSeries order, in testimony last week before the US International Trade Commission. Boeing filed a complaint April 27 that Bombardier sold the CS100 to Delta for $19.6m, well below its production cost, a price that constitutes “dumping.” (leehamnews.com) Mais...

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pkslayton
Patrick Slayton 8
Reading this, Boeing had no delivery slots available and DL has taken delivery. So they are complaining that DL did not obediently wait for them to get around to it?
gerardDAVID
gerardDAVID 4
this civil fight could offer a new opportunity in the military field...
a chance for France to sell its RAFALE in North America?
23allkimm
Randall Kimm -2
Hi David,
You raise an extremely serious point. Ottawa,the Department of National Defence just cancelled a multi-billion dollar contract with Lockheed Martin. Upset would be a good understatement. People who know absolutely nothing about military aircraft will jump to what looks like the wisdom of a troop of apes. I'm sure that the F-35 has some merits. Off the record pilot reports suggest that this is similar to "Ford's Edsel".
It has nothing to do with Bombardier C-Series Regional Jets. They're pissed off and scared other countries will follow suit. This is how your closest and oldest friends get treated. But one thing that I am sure of. If one of the "A" class World Air Carriers is extremely overwhelmed by the performance of the C-Series jets. They will sell, it takes time to build momentum. Boeing bet the farm on the 777, which is a market leader.
The BS by Boeing was simply blowback from an iffy fighter. They stand to lose the most
Ottawa can turn around and destroy Boeing sales for years. Remember if they don't get what they want they will do anything that makes Vladimir Putin look like THE FRIENDLY GIANT ".Its another common shitty game America plays with her Allies. The present sitting President has no idea of what a moral center and decency is. It may suck for a
while. Incidentally, Rafael has no chance of making sales in Canada because the RCAF helmets that cost around a million a pop are configured only for our best friends weapons. However the Typhoon is a different story with total weapons capability. I would approach British Aerospace and technology. After all Boeing orders by Canadian Carriers should be cancelled immediately. It would be fun to watch. However the sitting PM has no spine or functioning brain. Sorry everybody the truth must be told consequences are dire with an idiot at the helm should be fun to watch how this mess turns out. Don't forget the Air Canada Airbus bribery that involved a cough syrup addict who happened to be the sitting PM. He resigned in mystery over this kind of message. Don't forget Boeing rip-off of the last C-17 built cost one hundred million more than the RAF and RAAF didn't pay those prices. It was a sleazy maneuver by Boeing because of special features added by Boeing. That's a load of monkey-muffins.
TorstenHoff
Torsten Hoff 11
Using Delta for leverage and trying to throw them under the bus isn't going to end well for Boeing. Delta is the largest airline by market cap, and could be a big customer for the 797 when it arrives.

It is pretty obvious that Boeing didn't really have a product to compete with the CSeries, so making Delta the scapegoat in their fight with Bombardier is just going to make any future bidding for Delta's business very awkward.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 6
And thinking one step further, if Boeing does succeed to seriously impede the Series, there are already Chinese buyers standing in line to invest in Bombardier, with propositions to build a second final assembly facility in China. Combine that with the newly formed Chinese-Russian partnership to develop and build twin isle aircraft, now that's competition for Boeing!
23allkimm
Randall Kimm 2
Hi Wolfgang,
I am very leary of doing anything that involves the Russians or Chinese. They will buy them,study them modify outside of patent rights literally allowing them to steal the technology even though it's built under license theoretically. Most corporate entities in Europe and North America are extremely leary of these projects. The Russians will normally claim minute details that causes non-existent problems with quality or assembly. Gary Kasparov calls them state thieves. I am extremely inclined to agree with him. With the Russians will claim we are no longer cooperating honestly and quit with 99% of your proprietary technology. The Chinese just sleaze your technology, you hand it over and of course threatening problems occur screwing you from your technology. Come on everybody,are we all brain dead. These people are still card carrying communists.
bizprop
bizprop -4
Bombardier peddled the C series to United who then decided to go with the B737-700 so it looks like Boeing do have a product that competes.
n914wa
Mike Boote 10
Actually it doesn't, and the United order is a perfect illustration of that. United said at the time that the 737-700 was much bigger than what they were shopping for, but the deal that Boeing gave them (dumped?) was too good to resist. Then, upon further examination of the order, and the fact that the 737-700 was just too large, United cancelled the order. Or to be more precise, deferred the order indefinitely.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 6
Sour grapes by Boeing who are indeed using "Trumponomics" (ref @trennor turcotte) as a fire accelerant to try and block what Delta claims is a good deal from all aspects. Bombardier found a niche and caught Boeing flat footed. Too bad, so sad.
SmokedChops
SmokedChops 6
'shoots down' was the best best headline hook the editor came up with for a story about commercial aviation?...
picturetaker
Christian Parada 12
I'm getting really sick and tired of listening to Boeing bitch and moan. They screwed over their union employees in Everett, Washington by building that assembly plant in South Carolina that took away work from them, and now when they see someone else having a little bit of success they say "Hey, no fair!"
RECOR10
RECOR10 0
I dont feel bad for Union plebeians even a little bit. Any company who pays more for the same work is simply ignorant (and shareholders hate that). Unions are a VERY big part of the reason there are so many "Made in China" stickers in the USA.
mfejfar1
m f 3
Look at the history of unions. Deaths and inhumane working conditions created unions because of corporate greed. I'm not a fan of unions but they are a necessary evil. Look at Delta's flight attendants; non union but happy because they are treated like humans and compensated well.
JoelRugeno
Joel Rugeno 5
Check your facts! corporate greed is the only reason that Made in China stickers are so common in the US, with reasoning like yours even the few parts in the 787 that are made in the US will soon have a mode somewherelse sticker
RECOR10
RECOR10 0
Joel - you are sadly mistaken. Corporations do NOT answer to their employees or Unions, they are ONLY to answer to their stock holders. Every now and again we get a nurse who has her panties in a tiff and trys to Unionize. Being a right to work state, when that happens they are immediately fired and we never give good references.
btweston
btweston 3
Sounds like you are an asshole.
RECOR10
RECOR10 -1
We simply do not allow collusion in the workplace and any potential effect on patient care. Rather than try to change our VERY well running system, those people can simply leave (at our discretion) and try to find a panacea in some other facility. That said, more often than not the Union idiots are the cause of their own problems.

https://youtu.be/1EbII_mj-Gg
picturetaker
Christian Parada 4
Except it's not exactly the same work. Even the employees at the South Carolina plant have said that they see a big difference between the work done in Washington and South Carolina, and they say the qualifications of the workers building the planes are not the same either.
btweston
btweston 0
Union workers are better at their jobs. That's why they make good money and have job security and healthcare. You are ignorant.
mfejfar1
m f 1
Saying union workers are better at their jobs is unfounded. I work in a union and see both good and bad just like any other industry. Unions are a necessary evil in my opinion.
RECOR10
RECOR10 -1
LOL - you must be smoking something. Union workers are (in some industries) straight up lazy and easily replaced by robots (auto for one).
bizprop
bizprop -6
If it is true that Bombardier is having to sell the C series below cost to get airlines to take them then that isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the program.
leonkay
Leon Kay 4
Boeing should never have ceized the production of their Boeing 717's. We flew on a Hawaiin Airlines one and found it a very nice plane. That would have made them more competitive in this 100 -130 seat market.
23allkimm
Randall Kimm 2
It's not a pricing issue. Boeing wants it's monopoly back. They miss the good old days when they were so happy they virtually did all of the price-fixing in open. They were happy to be the only game in town. The Regional Jet Aircraft Industry was invented here in Canada. The Boeing executives have themselves to blame. As far as that nonsense goes...all of the manufacturer's do it! It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. This is the first aircraft designed from scratch in 35 years. Boeing has itself to blame. They were mad when Airbus came along and clobbered Boeing's market..the world. And they came along with fly-by-wire. Boeing dropped the ball. When the first Regional Jets came along Boeing wasn't paying any attention on Canada. They figured we were just a bunch of dumb Canadian's would never build an aircraft in their private and personal market. I'm not saying that the Boeing and Airbus don't build bad airplanes. Bombardier designed an aircraft that leaves a small carbon footprint and the jet travels at jet speeds in ancraft SWISS and BALTIC are thrilled with these aircraft. That scares the heck out of airline CEO'S. When you out outperform two of the global airlines in real operations not simulations,you will sell a lot of airplanes because you hold a fiduciary responsibility to your shareholders. Boeing is scared because there are many second hand Boeing 737's. Lufthansa, Air Canada are dumping a lot of good airplanes. There is nothing wrong with them,because the Bombardier C-Series Regional Jets are the best in the world. Major airline CEO'S are probably aren't sleeping well and they will go to any length and employ every sleezy practice to slow down the inevitable. Bombardier has struggled to get these world beating aircraft into the hands anxious CEO'S. They're worried and should be, a Bombardier Aircraft takes-off every and lands every 30 seconds. As far as price fixing goes, it was invented in the United States, the worst offender being Boeing. The best way to handle this is to cancel all Boeing orders by Air Canada WestJet and any others if Airbus replaces all fleets, with serious extras. That could put a very big dent at Boeing. Airbus would have to build a new facility with a Professional Training and Construction and Maintenance Facility. The Europeans want our business not screw us.
Finally, every one of the first Bombardier C-Series Regional Jets were baptized by the major airports in Europe. We poor dumb Canucks better be careful, they've got "Dirty Don" terror of the Potomac He will get mad, somebody in the USAF was just told to bomb Ottawa.
trennor
trennor turcotte 1
More Trumpnomics? "America First," and all that? Is government putting pressure on private industry now to contest off-short competition? Wouldn't surprise me. Spurious, to say the least, judging from the article.
blake1023
blake1023 -2
If it wasn't the for the Canadian Government bailing out Bombardier, the C series would have never been brought to market.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 9
Let's not kid ourselves in believing it is that simple. Do you not believe that extensive pressure applied by the powerful Boeing and other company lobbyists do not result in their favoured status in international and national sales? All gov'ts do what they can to support manufacturer apply pressures that favor them over other companies? Different yet the same. Funny how Boeing is whining that they lost at their own game. And the sale was to a US airline. Ooops Boeing, someone asleep at the switch? Or as Delta exec stated, , , Boeing did not have a competing aircraft. Too bad,,,, so sad. Next!
blake1023
blake1023 -1
That market of airplanes is saturated and I think Bombardier made a mistake. Bombardier put all their eggs in the C series basket, pushing the company to near bankruptcy. The Canadian government will not let Bombardier fail, lets be honest. Boeing didn't lose anything, I think Boeing has proven track record selling airplanes. Bombardier is almost in bankruptcy, to point the Canadian government has a 49% stake in the C series and the Global 7000.

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