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Lion Air 737 Crash off Bali

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A Lion Air Boeing 737 has overrun the runway into water at Denpasar's main airport. All passengers are believed to have survived however the aircraft's fuselage is broken in two. (news.smh.com.au) Mais...

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mickndot53
Mickey McCarthy 4
Wow Delivered less than a month ago.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 4
Try to look on the bright side. No one was killed, and a water landing saves you a little time because there is no point waiting by the baggage carousel.
preacher1
preacher1 2
michaeld747
Michael Demura 3
http://avherald.com/h?article=460aeabb&opt=0

Proof that the aircraft landed short, includes flight path.
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
Look at the fence. had it overrun, I should think there would be a hole big enough to drive a 737 thru it. From the angle at which the AC is sitting, it seems that the 737 doesn't surf well.
michaeld747
Michael Demura 2
Agreed.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Ya'll read this link. This takes all the speculation out of it as whether short or overrun; look at the photos as they show a lot more. My guess is a microburst/windshear of sometype. Although basically a clear approach, winds round & round with some storms around too. 100' low ain't that big a deal but if a burst got him at the end, that low,he would have no chance to recover. If there ever was one, I think it was a good ditch, but I think he was probably already in the water or headed that way before he knew what was happening. I guess time will tell when they can listen to the CVR and talk to the Pilot/crew.
spatr
spatr 2
Could also be something like the Turkish 737 that came up short in Amsterdam. A single RA failure led the autothrottles to pull the power to idle, thinking it was time to flare. Crew didn't react and the plane landed way short.

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 1
send 'em on, Ill be here
Taurcan
Richard Bowman 2
Lion Air has a history of incompetence world wide. They fail their aircrew in training, and the aircraft with poor or shoddy maintenance. My opinion is based on air crash investigation reports released to the public. My opinion is reinforced by
Lion Air remaining banned from the EU.
It's going to be amusing to watch the Administration within the EU turn themselves inside out trying to again give acess to Lion Air.
Lion Air had only recently purchased political access to the EU by announcing the purchase of approx 200 Airbus A320's.
They had already announced a purchase of 200 Boeing A/C.
Where are they going to fly these aircraft? After this recent crash in Bali, watch the EU Government squirm to proceed with access to Lion ,providingJobs for Airbus, at the expense of lives lost.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I guess anybody can be incompetent, as can a carrier, BUT, here you have an Aircraft not a month off delivery and a multi thousand hour flight crew. I'll stay out of the politics and they have been trying in recent times to clean their act up. Past that, it will be interesting to see what this investication shows. I'm betting wind shear, but, we'll see.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
What you've pointed out supports wind-shear. I fear the report may rely more on who is paying for the investigation and their agenda.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Unfortunately, you are probably correct
preacher1
preacher1 3
Just for what it's worth, CNN is saying that it OVERAN the runway rather than landing short
michaeld747
Michael Demura 0
Yeah most reports I read have said it overan rather than landed short.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Either way, it's in the water, probably with a hull loss. Thank God all are safe.
michaeld747
Michael Demura 1
Agreed, looks like the fuselage is split is pretty severe.
TXCAVU
"apparently ditched short of the Ngurah Rai runway after the pilot reported engine troubles when the plane dropped short of the runway." Australian news report.

How is it Lion has so many mishaps with relatively new 73s?
michaeld747
Michael Demura 6
This airline seems to have had numerous incidents with MD-80 and 737 series aircraft in the past decade. Not sure what the root cause is. Poor maintenance and training would be the obvious.
TXCAVU
Perhaps when they start flying the A320s, they fly by wire will be helpful.
RECOR10
RECOR10 2
Air France Flight 447 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kERSSRJant0
michaeld747
Michael Demura 1
Yeah, time will tell.
Pileits
Pileits 1
No way Mz Robillard and I have THOUSANDS of hours flying the A320, so I know what speak!
preacher1
preacher1 4
How did a 320 get in here. It was a 737?
RECOR10
RECOR10 1
After seeing the video of Sully talking about an Airbus crash and why it would not have happened on a Boeing or other craft with linked controls....I will never get on another Airbus (if I can help it).
RECOR10
RECOR10 1
Air France flight 447 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kERSSRJant0
frankysoh
frank soh 0
Air France flight 447 was the frozen pitot problem confused the first officers on duty which could avoided with
Boeing aircraft yokes not joysticks. American automobiles may not be the top of the world;however, the aircraft
industries are state of art despite minor hick up of Dreamliner problems with lithium ion battery issues.
JetMech24
JetMech24 1
That's pretty a pretty dumb thing to say since half of Boeing's aircraft are now fly by wire, the only ones left are the 767 and 737, and the 737 will be fly by wire when the MAX's come out.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
JM24, I tried to find how many 737 (9,000+) and 767 ((1,000-) AC have been built. (Peren #'s are what I found). Are you saying that Boeing has more than 10,000 FBW AC? Will the 8,000 or so pre-MAX 737's (less the one gone surfng in Bali) be retrofitted to FBW? Sorry if it's an ignorant question.
JetMech24
JetMech24 1
Half of Boeing's MODELS use FBW (777's and 787's) the other half (767's and 737's) still use mechanical inputs, easy enough now?
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Sorry, bad math
Model Units
737 9000
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Sorry, wrong button.
Bad math:
Model Units
737 9000
767 1000
777 ?
787 50
count 4 1050 + ?
I don't see FBW as near 50%, sorry.
Maybe in a couple of decades
By the way, how many DC-3s are still operational?
"Quantity has a quality of it's own"
JetMech24
JetMech24 1
Boeing has 4 models out right now, 2 of them use FBW, 2 of them do not, hence half of them are FBW, half of them are not. NOT number of actual aircraft.
michaeld747
Michael Demura 1
4 models? I think you are forgetting the 747-8. That makes 5.

737
747
767
777
787
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Understand now. Half the models, not half the population. thanx
preacher1
preacher1 3
I'm glad ya'll got that figgered out.LOL I was gettin' worried
joelwiley
joel wiley -1
Maybe is was omitted cuz one of them is Obama's ride. Should be enough to disqualify the entire line.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Oops, should be a reply to Michael Demura and 'is' was 'it'
preacher1
preacher1 3
I really can't answer your question other than to say they are banned from flying in the US on account of it. On this deal, whether short land or overrun, it could be mechanical or crew.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
It's called weak pilot skills, so much dependency on automation, that they don't know how to fly!!! The only things that matter are needle, ball, airspeed. Stick and rudder every time...
silverzdfltrack
Bob Ziehm 2
Correct! Landed short.
preacher1
preacher1 -1
You really can't diagree with a short landing looking at where the hull broke and a testimony from a pax on board. That said, in the photos it does appear to be an overshoot as the runway seems to be behind him and several witness on the ground are saying he ran off of it. Is there something here not being told???
alvinlie
alvinlie 1
Since 2002 Lion Air had more than 22 recorded incidents & accidents.
Including landing at the wrong airport!
2 different B737-900ER skidded off the same runway within 24 hours!
Despite its poor safety records, Indonesian authority never suspended its operations.
JT904 13Apr2013 never reached runway 09 of Ngurah Rai Aiport in Bali.
Unlike RW27, RW09 is not equiped with ILS.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Though I am not a staunch believer , but all this proves what is providential , real causes not withstanding !
pilot62
Scott Campbell 1
THE answers to your ???????'S are in the comments
Bernie20910
Bernie20910 1
BBC is just saying it "missed by about 50m", which seems to indicate it landed short. Unless it was off center? Nah, that would be crazy...
AABABY
AABABY 1
As agent 86, Maxwell Smart used to say, "Missed it by that much."
TXCAVU
Photo: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Indonesian+police+Lion+plane+skids+runway+into+ocean+Bali/8238560/story.html
canuck44
canuck44 1
This group has lots of problems. They have had three arrests of pilots in the past year for using crystal meth. It looks like the drug trade has deep tentacles in their employee base. I suspect I would pass on a free ticket.
frankysoh
frank soh 1
Today's the aviation computer technology is too advanced to fail. It is very easy to land and take off with average pilots. It is very hard to fail, but some pilots landed on the ocean very easily. You have to think that your family members on board all the time.
frankysoh
frank soh 1
I barely remember the one of the airline descend too quick in Alaska and pilots blamed for air pocket and US authority
found out the unprofessional pilot's jacket sleeve jammed thrust levers. The history may be repeat itself.
It is very hard to crash the most advanced and popular aircraft in the world. I feel really bad for LionAir's the other excellent pilots and the stock holders.$89.1 million is gone....Thank god no fatality....
frankysoh
frank soh 1
I must doubt the Indonesian pilot's proficiency and professionalism. It remind me the Colgan Air Flight 3407
without bad weather. I suspect that two pilots slow down too soon and fell like glider with two jet engines.
I doubt that they did not even use the pilot's checklist. If you give the professional machine to amateurs, you can expect this tragedy! Bottom line is you cannot make a chicken salad with chicken shit. Boeing should enforce pilots qualification at U.S.A. This incident was a big embarrassment to Boeing not to Lion Air pilots who
responsible. Boeing should sell the aircrafts to qualified airlines only. Adam Air Flight 574 seems like yesterday.
pilot7
Milt Reel 1
Being a retired airline pilot I can say the following...
If there was no mechanical problem then it was the result of incompetent inexperienced pilots.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I'm still thinkin' wind shear based on pilots testimony from hospital. I realize hours don't make you proficient but they had 'em.
PattyVanoy
Patty Vanoy 1
Good to stay positive, huh Ric . . . Thanks!
silverzdfltrack
Bob Ziehm 1
Landed short. Didn't skid off runway.
silverzdfltrack
Bob Ziehm 1
Did not overshoot. Landed short.
michaeld747
Michael Demura 0
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/plane-crashes-off-coast-of-bali/story-fn32891l-1226619817622

Judging by this picture and report I'd say it'd be reasonable to suggest a runway overrun.
preacher1
preacher1 0
CNN just had an audio report from a reporter that was at the Airport when it happened. They said no hint or report of trouble, just overran it.
michaeld747
Michael Demura 0
Yeah, it will be interesting to find out the cause of this incident. What was the weather like at the time of the overrun?
preacher1
preacher1 1
Didn't one of the pic's show pretty clear?
michaeld747
Michael Demura 0
Could have been moisture on the runway which wasn't shown
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, seem like they are talking wind shear now as were several comments on the original article. It don't happen often but I remember the DAL 1011 at DFW back in the day. Pilot said he just felt like he was dragged from the air and full power wouldn't overcome
michaeld747
Michael Demura 1
Yeah, I remember hearing of that accident. It will be interesting to see what the investigation uncovers.
preacher1
preacher1 2
85 I think. I knew that Connors boy that was Captain on that thing. Those were the days before doppler. They had a look at it but it just grabbed them harder than expected and no way out; very similar to what the pilot is talking here. These guys weren't young bucks either but fairly well experiened, at least by their hours.
pilot62
Scott Campbell -1
Maybe thousand hours as a passenger , you cant even form a full sentence and most pilots wouldnt even bother stating there hours like that CHAMP , come on ! :D
preacher1
preacher1 1
?????????
JetMech24
JetMech24 3
He hasn't learned how to REPLY to people's comments. So all of his comments just seem random.
pilot62
Scott Campbell -2
Nah, Almost certain it was an overrun, pictures of where it ended up are very clear.
silverzdfltrack
Bob Ziehm -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Lion Air plane crash - Bali April - 2013 Video

Good video of passenger recovery. Great to see all helping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mgkuhvDbh0s
RECOR10
RECOR10 -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Lion Air jet crashes into sea in Bali; 45 hurt

BALI, Indonesia (AP) — All 108 passengers and crew survived after a new Lion Air jet crashed into the ocean and snapped into two while attempting to land Saturday on the Indonesian resort island of Bali, injuring up to 45 people.

http://www.mail.com/news/world/2017362-lion-air-jet-crashes-sea-bali-45-hurt.html
apmac77
anthony mchale -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Lion Air overshoots runway

BALI, Indonesia (AP) — A Lion Air plane carrying more than 100 passengers and crew overshot a runway on the Indonesian resort island of Bali on SaturdAsay and crashed into the sea, injuring nearly two dozen people, officials said.

http://news.yahoo.com/lion-air-plane-crashes-sea-bali-22-hurt-105201719.html
vernegli
vern egli -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

All safe as Lion Air plane misses Bali runway, lands in sea


All 108 passengers and crew miraculously survived when a Lion Air Boeing 737 missed the runway on the balmy Indonesian resort island of Bali on Saturday and landed in the sea.

Forty people were treated for injuries including broken legs, head wounds and shock, though only four were admitted to hospital, hospital officials said.

The brand new aircraft had flown from Bandung, in West Java, and was about to land at Bali airport. "But it probably failed to reach the runway and fell into the sea," said Lion Air spokesman Edward Sirait.

He said there were 101 passengers and seven crew on board but would not comment on the cause of the crash. An investigation is under way.

Bali's police chief told local television that there were two foreign passengers.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/13/us-indonesia-plane-idUSBRE93C03J20130413
grinch59
Gene Nowak -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Bali Plane Crash - 100 Passengers Safe

Jet carrying more than 100 passengers lands in sea after skidding off runway in Indonesia.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/bali-plane-crash-jet-carrying-1829006
Fourpawphoto
Michael Ostrowski -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Raw video of Lion Air Jet crash into sea

All 108 passengers and the crew survived the crash as the plane broke into two, but up to 45 people were injured.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/raw-2-dozen-hurt-plane-131725178.html
kea001
Tom Kearney 0
In the comments on Daily Mail article - "The aircraft DID NOT overshoot. It never made it to the runway. It has landed in the sea SHORT of runway 09. It's come down tail first and apparently very hard which is why the fuselage has broken at the point where the rear baggage/cargo access is located (a weak point) and both horizontal stabilisers have been ripped off. The published METARS show that there was a 3-6 knot wind alternating from 150 to 090. There's a possibility for wind shear there. The radar returns (again, in the public domain on the internet) show that he was some 100 feet BELOW the glide path. Other published data shows that the aircraft ground speed was, at times, quite low. Draw your own conclusions - I've drawn mine.
- Jay-Jay , Banglamung

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308475/Bali-plane-crash-Miracle-escape-108-passengers-plane-overshoots-runway-lands-SEA.html
Paciano
Geoffrey Luck 1
I'm amazed at reading the posts on this blog. As on so many previous occasions, too many people who apparently should know better rush to publish their first thoughts when they know nothing. Of all the comments, the only one that was correct, accurate and relevant was the one by Tom Kearney. What do so many people - including competent pilots want to publicise their stupidity?

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