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Korean A388 at Tokyo on Jul 21st 2011, engine pod strike

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I don't know what was worse, scraping a brand new aircraft or there was only 168 people on board an aircraft that can hold 300+! (avherald.com) Mais...

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mpradel
Marcus Pradel 0
A380 can hold and carry your closest 500 strangers. 168 is light and would make it harder to handle in a x-wind..
How much is it going to cost to ground the bird for a week while they remove the engine to see if the plastic mounts are ok? New casing for the engines.. priceless!
laxlover
Stephen Brown 0
What idiots. Wonder if pilot was fired??
travisb922
travisb922 0
Marcus- Your absolutely right, I'd never thought of it like that. It did say that the next flight was delayed an hour but it went to its next destination. The runway crews confirmed it scraped the hell out of the runway. I hope we can find out more info later!
alistairm
alistairm 0
I really don't think the number of passengers had anything to do with this. I think you are going to find that lack of proper training and bad decision making we the main factors here. I have landed in crosswind before at Tokyo aboard a 747. Boy, when that bitch straightened up, we were all jerked around. I knew a pilot many years ago who used to train Chinese pilots and he told me that they would never listen to what he was instructing them to do. Korean pilots may just be as stubborn. Check this youtube video out. Good footage of A380 crosswind testing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXX23mD4OH8
preacher1
preacher1 0
Alistair: you are correct on all points. Crosswinds are there and you better damn well know how to FLY a plane to land a heavy in a bad one, ala the old Kaitak, and they say the new one is not much better. Whether a 747 or 757, you slip in at an angle into the wind and touch one main gear and let the wind jerk you around straight, then hope you are straight enough to set the rest of them down and stay straight for the rollout. There were many times when that airport has been conditionally closed and pilot was given a choice. You were own your own. They would give you the approach and clearance but tell you the windspeed and direction and you were own your own.
I can remember talking to one of Boeing's trainers in the KAL Hotel in Seoul in early 1970, as they were taking delivery on their 1st 747. He alluded to the stubborness of the pilots also. I was stationed over there and you could see it in the people. We kept them from speaking Chinese and they love our money, as far as working at the bases, but you meet one off base and they run from you like you have the plague. Still that way from what I hear.
preacher1
preacher1 0
And regardless of whether you categorize all this with their official names of CRAB or De-CRAB, whichever is used. That is basically just the official name for what I said above, lest somebody get picky here.lol What am I thinking. Picky, our guys here on FA????? Nah.lol. What am I thinking.
All that official name is for is to describe in detail what you got to do to get to where I said. That being said, I think one of the comments in the article itself said that the A380 had a 40kt crosswind threshold and recommended level wings. That in itself is contrary to what most pilots have learned/been taught and if this is so, probably contributes to this strike.
sheka
mark tufts 0
i wonder how much it will cost the engine and repair the runway
danishnelson
Danish Nelson 0
This plane was diliverd to the not even 2 months ago and pilots are already messing with it.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Wayne (preacher1): After Pan Am went under in 1991 I flew a contract with Korean Air and their idea of how to make an approach in a crosswind is clallanging! They want a wings level landing because the lack of practice in lowering a wing into the wind caused some pod scars in the past. There is a specific technic, using cross control, to manage cross-wind landings. Done properly, one can successfully land in a cross wind above the "recommended" limit in the book. The 747 and larger aren't any different than any other swept wing aircraft and good technic works every time! clipper
preacher1
preacher1 0
Gene: I have no doubt to what you say and as i said, the articles says even AB recommends level wing and the book undoubtedly gives procedure, but as you say, the KAL procedure was "CHALLENGING". You or me neither one was taught that way and I bet it would be interesting to say the least.lol
It probably also makes you wonder who wrote the book?????????
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Stephen (laxlover): I would like to spend some time in a 747 simulator with you. You are either a non-pilot or very low time pilot with an "attitude". An hour in the sim would realine your thought pattern, and might even make you worth flying with. As it is you wouldn't last 10 days in either a military flight training program or working for an airline. I am a retired Pan Am Capt. with 30k+ flying hours and 16 years in the 747 from flight engineer on up to Captain, and have had some smartassas like you in the cockpit before, I assure you their personality changed after a week of flying with me! As for x-wind landings, the Koreans want a wings level landing and crab removed as the round-out is completed. Leads to some pretty hard landings and, since the pilot is required to constaintly "adjust" his heading to stay straight with the runway (or accept the big "lunge" as the A/C rights itself). Wayne (preacher1), I suspect you have made a few x-wind "rumblers" yourself and all you said is quite true as far as I know. clipper1
preacher1
preacher1 0
Gene: I think your assessment above is pretty much correct. I am semi retired and was lucky enough to have a cushy corporate job out of Western AR(FSM) with a 707 and 757 and now that I am off the active board, they just bought a brand new 767-200ER a couple of months back. While it carried the same type rating as for the 57, a couple of hours in the cocpit was a good thing and I was fortunate enough to get that awhile back and make one weekend trip in it a few weeks back. All that to say this, I too have those multiple hours in the cockpit, though not quite as many as you and yes, having flown a lot to the West out of here, have experienced several of those "rumblers" as regardless of the fact that runways are built for primary wind in most places,it won't never be that way when you line it up and you had better know what you are doing. Like I said earlier about KAL and AB. It makes you wonder who wrote the book. It is hard to tell on this picture whether the guy was trying for a level wing and got lifted or if he hadn't read the book.lol Wayne
preacher1
preacher1 0
Gene: Being with Pan-Am, I guess you spent your time at Roswell. I was stationed at ABQ in 69 when they first started flying them and they would uses the sunport for touch and go at times. I know it was simply amazing that takeoff run at MTOW on a 707 was around 10 grand or close to it and those first 747's could land, full stop, and take off again in 7900 or therabouts. I remember those days of TX INTL still flying and that's the only way you could get into Roswell. I remember leaving ABQ on them once and there was a whole slug of Pan Am Pilots on there. TI had a very senior captain on that flight(DC-9), when he set down at Roswell, there wasn't even a shock bounce and you should have heard the cabin erupt. When I got off in Dallas, he was standing by the cockpit with a big grin on his face and said "reckon I showed them boys how to do it"? I told him I thought so.
Friend of mine over here, Charley Harris, is a retired Pan-Am Captain. has a Hobby shop over here, but he may be way ahead of you. I think he retired before they went out
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Wayne: I am quite familiar with Ft. Smith, havning lived in Russellville for 12 years before moving to Melbourne, AR. Yes, I am also aquanted with Roswell NM. Pan AM gave me my ATP check on the 707 there. In about 6 years I was back finishing my first officer upgrade on the 747. One thing about KAL; they flew some of the best maintained equipment I have ever had the pleasure to fly! I greatly enjoyed flying with theuir crewmwmbers as well, very freindly and easy to get along with. I didn't know any Charlie Harris, but that wouldn't be unusual as the Pan Am pilots lived all over the place and commutted to their trips for the most part.
preacher1
preacher1 0
Gene: I may know you, as I live South of Dardanelle now, having a trucking company in Russellville now. I been around here the last 35-40 years. Charlie's hobby shop is in Dardanelle and I am not sure where they lived prior to coming in here, which was in the early 90's. I was born in Russellville but was an Army brat and came back to the Valley in 1972. Flew out of Ft Smith for 30 years and then decided I didn't have enough to do, so I got into trucking.LOL I still stay current on some RJ's thanks to some friends at AA and what was NWA(now DAL) and occasionally my old company will call me to fill in. They just bought that new 767-200ER a few months ago and although it carried a dual type with the 757 I came out of, a little stick time was a welcome thing. I guess I'll keep my ticket up as long as they'll continue to grant a few waivers on the physical but that will end one of these days.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Wayne: Charley Craig have a long history together. He flew tankers in the AF and I flew B-47's. Of course we didn't know it at the time but we had also had similar childhoods. I don't remember exactly what year Charlie retired but I do know I flew for several years after he retired. Charlie and his wife, Gloria, invited us to visit on our vacation from Korean Air, which we did, then bought a house on Plesant View Rd. A lot of water underthe bridge since then, I've had open heart surgery (a very quick way to destroy a retirement, both financialy and physically). and doing medium well and using every Alternate Health idea I can find in an effort to more fully recover my health and life! My Son Art Ray has an operation flying out of Springdale, AR which is fortunate as we get to see him and his family more often that way. Good Luck!
preacher1
preacher1 0
I don't know why I said Harris. I guess I got him mixed up with another Charley I know up there. That's how it is when you get old.lol. So far my ticker has held out. Got some Atrial Fib right now but Doc says nothing to worry about and my buddy in OKC will still grant a waiver on the physical so I'm good for now. Charley had a round with, I think prostate cancer a few years back but seems to have gotten thru it. I haven't seen him in a while and I can't remember the last time I saw Gloria. A mutual friend bought a little shortline railroad over here back in the 90's and we got acquainted through him. I'm not sure at the time but Charley may have had an interest in it to. They opened the shop then too and we all had an interest in model RR.
alistairm
alistairm 0
lol,you guys (Wayne & Gene)should exchange phone numbers or email addresses! Gosh, i just came back to this post today and i must say that all the posts between you two after the comment from Danish, are very interesting. I love to read about this stuff. It reminds me of the books i have read about Johnnie Johnson, Clarence Anderson, Chuck Yeager or Grant McConachie - don't let your heads inflate from this, lol. But, just reading about the experiences you guys have had, is very interesting. Thanks so much for taking the time to write about them here :)
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Alistair, One experience I haven't had is flying the later model fighters. For several years I lived in So. Missouri and commutted to LAX for my trips. This was before the US decided that their own citizens were a danger to the country and if you had a pilots uniform on the tower personell would welcome you into the cab for coffee. I spent a good deal of time there waiting for my flight to LAX to get ready to go. One VERY foggy morning a mcdonald test pilot was taking a new F-4 for a production test flight and he called for clearence to take off and climb to VFR on top while heaqded for the test area. The controller tapped me on the sholder and said"watch this". He gave the F-4 driver a very complicated departure after he overheaded the local VOR or report VFR on top as the pilot desired. I don't remember the numbers so I'll just call it "test". Well "test" took the runway, lit off all 4 stages of the after burners and went tearing down the RW, lifting off at aprox. 3500'--he then proceeded to STL VOR. reported overhead and the blip from his plane just stopped right over the VOR, about 2 1/2 minutes he reported "test" VFR on top flt. level 400, proceeding west to the test area. I swore to God that if he would just let me live long enough I would fly on of those planes before I died! Several years later I finally got to fly one at George AFB, but that is another story.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Wayne: My personal e-mail is clipper1@centurytel.net. I can bring you up to date on Charlie--well up to a point, I haven't talked with him in several years but we did keep in touch until my heart problem some years ago.
alistairm
alistairm 0
Awwwwwhhh, i feel like i am on Eharmony now, lol. Joking... Hope you guys can share more stories and maybe one day, have a beer together;)

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