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Boeing withdraws contract offer after talks with union end without a deal

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Boeing withdrew a contract offer for 33,000 machinists who have been on strike since mid-September, and said further negotiations “do not make sense at this point.” The machinists walked off the job on Sept. 13 after overwhelmingly rejecting a tentative labor deal, halting production of most of Boeing’s aircraft, which are made in the Puget Sound area. Boeing later sweetened the offer, increasing pay raises, a ratification bonus and other improvements, which the union turned down, arguing that… (www.msn.com) More...

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CHRISMORGAN
CHRIS MORGAN 19
As always, the difficulty is finding a sensible compromise. A pay demand that requires the cost of the product to be set at a level that makes it unviable is doomed to failure. Equally a prolonged strike, particularly within a company already facing financial problems, very quickly drains any funds which MAY have been available for a sensible offer.
Time is fast running out at Boeing and the longer the current dispute continues their chances of accessing further funding reduces.
Unless there is an agreement pretty quickly, there won't be any jobs at any hourly rate!!
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 6
That is something the union obviously failed to take into account. I recall about 20 years ago a labour dispute happened at a local mill where the company made a pretty good offer but the union turned it down. The workers went on strike and the mill closed and has never reopened.
Does this union think Boeing has no other choices?
yarnoca1
John Yarno 7
My grandson work(ed) at Boeing and told me late last year or early this year that the union was planning a massive strike. The date was set quite a while back, and even if Boeing made an offer, they were going to strike period.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Why? That seems counter productive.
sparkie624
sparkie624 6
IT IS... It is more of making a statement than anything... Just 1 more reason why I don't like Unions!
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 3
I hear you. I worked in Labor Relations at America West and am painfully aware of union drawbacks.
sparkie624
sparkie624 5
One thing that I can say for sure, is that when I got out of a Union Environment, I am so much happier and everyone works together far better than with any Union that I have ever worked for... When I was working the Line and or Hangar after leaving a Union, the quality of everyone was so much better... Especially the Managers... Especially at SouthWest. Working without a Union, I make more, don't have to pay union Dues, At anytime I could go in and talk to any Supervisor or Manager and never had any kind of issue... I will never go back into the Union... Worst environment that I ever worked in. I am also making more and much much happier! The Unions did not get me more money, and I had to pay their dues... No Thank You!
Doonhamers
Unions can have drawbacks but unions can provide protection for workers against unscrupulous companies. In this case both union and company management have dug their heels in and nothing will get agreed. A reasonable union can help the business. Chapter 11 beckons, sparkie!
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
"Chapter 11 beckons, sparkie!" - I agree... Once they do that, they can force the union members back to work, and even lower the wages if the Judge Agrees. The Company and Union will have to state there facts... But I still stand fast by my statement that I have been much happier not working in a Union Environment!
Doonhamers
It is nice to see that we can agree on something.
aurodoc
aurodoc 13
This is a perfect opportunity to split Boeing into 2 companies; Boeing commercial and Boeing defense and aerospace. They just need to declare bankruptcy, split the company and rehire. Each company has the opportunity to excel or flop.

People complain about inflation and then they ask for a 40 percent raise which makes inflation worse.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 6
I have had direct experience with some of the problems Boeing made for itself by keeping those two very different sides of their business tied together. Yes, for their own good they need to finally split the two.
CapeCodder
CapeCodder 8
Boeing has had countless serious mechanical and technical issues with their planes over the past few years. Many well-seasoned pilots on this forum won't fly on a Boeing aircraft because of the poor quality control. Until they get their act together, there should be no pay increases for any Boeing employee including management. An argument could be made for an across-the-board pay cut.
CapeCodder
CapeCodder 4
Just In...........

Boeing to Cut 10% (17,000) of Workers Amid Strike, Delay New 777X Production Until 2026

Manufacturer to book $5 billion in charges on troubled programs and warns of deeper quarterly loss amid machinists strike
dwiggins01
Scott Wiggins 9
Take it into bankruptcy and dissolve the union.
sparkie624
sparkie624 -5
They will be back working before Trump Gets in Office!
Doonhamers
Yet more political comments from a person (no idea what gender you purport to be, so will not say man or woman) who asked in a previous squawk for people to stop making them.
patpylot
patrick baker 9
if biden could pull a binding arbitration agreement in advance from these two antigonistic parties, that would be most impressive. Also a good idea for the health of the manufacturing economy.
dwiggins01
Scott Wiggins 3
Why would he do that? Socialists thrive on strife between workers and employers.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Biden wouldn't because he doesn't have the brain to understand it. and I agree... Socialists Strive on Strife... They also thrive on Fear!
Doonhamers
After asking in a previous squawk for no political comments you carry on making them yourself! Hypocrite.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 6
100% agree.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -3
Personally, I'm ok with it since all 3 of his statements are true and also pertinent to the OPs question of Bidens "potential intervention". Carry on!
avionik99
avionik99 -3
But do nothing Biden will do just that, Nothing! Look at the Longshoreman strike and what he planned to do there....Nothing
linbb
linbb -1
I agree his puppeteers need to supply him with some poorly drafted talking point as usual with his dumb delivery. Or the even dumber one Harris will make a statement so vague one wonders what she is trying to say. Wow what a pair, her voice changing depending on the group she is speaking too along with her horse laugh says it all. NOTHING
dwiggins01
Scott Wiggins -1
I'm sure that Van Jones is working on a script for him to mumble through. Obama's busy with lawyers trying to stay out of the Diddy trap.
AlanBDahl
Alan Dahl 1
Looks like "doing nothing" ended the strike quickly and got the longshoremen a decent raise. If he had instead used the Taft-Hartley act then no agreement would have been made at all and the issue would have drug on even though the workers would have been forced back temporarily. Not to mention that many on the right would have accused him of doing it purely for political reasons.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue 0
Hmm, only 2 hours after returning to the White House after Biden ... accessing the damage of Helene from the air, in South Carolina, a reporter asked "What do the think of the storm damage, Mr President"? He replied, "What storm"?
sparkie624
sparkie624 5
There are 2 Sides to every story... Take both, average them together, and you will get a decent idea of what is really going on... I have worked under Unions before at 4 other jobs... I am doing so much better now that I do not have to deal with them. Unions Pit Employees against MGMT and that is never good. Unions had there day and they did well early on, however, now days they are not needed and many times they create a much worse work environment... I am so much happier now that I have not worked under a Union for 20 years now and things are so much better now. Everyone gets along and anyone can talk to the boss, not just a union rep! When you get a Free Loader under a union... you cannot get rid of them... They are problems... If you work, you should work. Not just collect a free paycheck like so many do!
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 4
I worked at unionized companies and even worked for the Teamsters for a while. Now I just work on a contractual basis, do my job and don’t have to deal with all that crap. But I also know people who could never hold a job without a union and I know companies that deserve a union.
Doonhamers
I disagree! For big companies such as Boeing I think that having a union is a good idea. If there was no union then the company could either give workers individual increases without justification or give everyone a raise without any comeback. Also, what do you do with other things such as unfair dismissal or disciplinary issues. You need unions for things like this, otherwise a company can do what it wishes. However, in small companies you can get away without Unions as everyone knows everyone else. The problem is that a union and management both need to be realistic. The union needs to recognise that any increase in pay follows through to an increase in the product which is passed on to the consumer. I agree with the comment from Chris Morgan at the top of the squawk that this price may be uncompetitive and the consumer doesn’t buy. The union needs to realise this. The company needs to pay a reasonable wage to its employees, otherwise they cannot live and start going to work elsewhere. I don’t know the Seattle job market but presume that Boeing have quite a stranglehold on the market there which gives them more power here. I don’t know how long Boeing can financially continue if the strike continues but both sides seem antagonistic rather than ready to negotiate.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 3
You don’t need a union. Most nonunion companies meet or exceed the wages and benefits unionized companies give their employees so that they can attract and retain good workers. The biggest difference is they can get rid of workers that underperform or create trouble at work.
AirplaneC
C J 3
Boeing "got rid of" John Barnett just fine...
MH370
MH370 1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Boeing withdraws contract offer – worsening the problems

Overnight, Boeing withdrew its 30% pay rise offer. The strike that started on September 13 continues, and bile is rising

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/boeing-withdraws-contract-offer-after-talks-with-union-end-without-a-deal/ar-AA1rYEQv?ocid=BingNewsSerp
johntaylor571
John Taylor 4
And I'm getting a whopping 2.5% increase in cost of living for my military pension.
AlanBDahl
Alan Dahl -1
How would you feel if you had not gotten a cost of living increase in a decade? Would you demand more of an increase in your pension this year? How much would you expect to cover the last decade's inflation? The official national rate is 34% in that time but Seattle prices have increased 43% over that decade with groceries and housing increasing even more than that.
Justthefacs
Justthefacs 2
Get a different job and vote for your preferences rather than for a party.
AirplaneC
C J 0
How would voting preference change the relationship between Boeing and the union? Additionally, "get a different job" is the laziest opinion possible.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -1
Simple, vote out Democrat inflation making politicians and Boeing workers wouldn't need a 43% wage increase, nor would the longshoreman need 73% raise! See how easy that was? Instead of spending more than $7,000,000,000,000, thats 7 "trillion dollars" in 3 years and still don't have a pot to piss in, vote in a businessman!
AirplaneC
C J 2
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-wants-pin-inflation-harris-160152151.html?

You're probably right. It's always smart to trust a "businessman" who says he's a good businessman and won't entertain a conversation otherwise (despite multiple bankruptcies and a survey of economists saying he'd bad for the economy). Very smart to trust someone who disparages anyone who speaks negatively about them.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -3
So dumb, are these the same economists that said the stock market would implode when Trump was elected and inflation would go thru the roof, and now saying their inflation was transitory, when in fact the market set record highs and Trump had 1.9% inflation, secured the border, forced NATO countries to pay up or get out, while Biden/Harris had the highest inflation in 40 yrs and spent 7 trillion doing it, allowing 20+ million illegals, selling our Stragetic Reserve oil to China, allowed a war in Ukraine and the led the debacle withdrawal in Afghanistan! So ya, I'll take a businessman!
AirplaneC
C J 2
If nothing else, you're good at blindly reciting their propaganda!!!
dustinkempf
Dustin Kempf 1
Did these workers not get a raise in the last decade?
nasdisco
Chris B -4
Plenty of votes at Boeing and and their suppliers.

Anti Harris whiners needs to remember your preferred candidate isn't doing anything to help.
johntaylor571
John Taylor 7
He's not an elected official. What's he supposed to do? We have a president, a Dept of Transportation, a Dept of Labor and a Dept of Commerce. They are the players in the game and yet have not even whispered a word. Don't blame some private citizen even if he is candidate for office.
dwiggins01
Scott Wiggins 4
So you want Obama's fourth term. Do you think he'll get caught up in the Diddy scandal. You know, cuz like he attended parties with him.?
AirplaneC
C J 0
Your boy was on the island. So...
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -1
You mean Clinton, Prince Albert and most of the DIMMZ in DC?
AirplaneC
C J 2
Who among those is running for president? Donny boy was there AND is running for president. You're going to go on record saying that you're voting for someone who diddles kids?

I wonder what that says about you and your proclivities....
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -1
So dumb... Trump wasn't on the island, nor is he on the passenger list Try harder.
AirplaneC
C J 0
Whatever you say, diddler...
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue 0
You're a funny guy! Completely ignorant of facts but funny nonetheless.
AirplaneC
C J 2
I'm not sure how you spin your propaganda into tall tales to entice the kiddos, but I'm not going to buy into your diddle happy lies. If you choose to keep believing what they tell you, that's your call. I've tried showing you legit sources of information, and you blindly dismiss it. You even clearly stated that even after being caught in lie after lie after lie after lie, that you'll religiously follow your leader without question. Your sad reality is no laughing matter, diddles. You can continue on living your life...I've already wasted enough of mine trying to have an adult conversation with you.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -1
Such a lame diatribe! You probably think the Biden coup wasn't really a coup and never really happen! Stick your head back in the sand!
CHRISMORGAN
CHRIS MORGAN 4
MEANWHILE BACK AT BOEING: The company hemorrhage one billion a month, the employees have lost a month's income and potential customers look elsewhere.
It really won't matter who wins the presidential election if there is nothing left to save !!
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -1
While I agree with your premise, I've already written off Boeing, It's the United States that can be saved in the election.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -1
Just file for Chapter 11, as I predicted 2 years ago. Split the company into 2 separate one's before you lose it ALL! The shoddy manufacturing practices mostly caused by adhering to DEI principles is at the precipice and now is the time of change to maintain some form of success or it will surely be a complete and utter failure!
AirplaneC
C J -5
The hilarity of all the right wing folks on here saying the government should do something...while simultaneously complaining that the government is too big and too involved in American's lives! lol You all really will say whatever they tell you to!
Rbonsall61
I'm as far right as you can get, and I fully believe that the chips need to fall where the chips fall.
AirplaneC
C J 2
Couldn't agree more, Richard! Having lived in multiple parts of the US (including both VERY red and VERY blue areas) I find that I'm pretty well in the center with a slightly left tilt. I've got my opinions on Boeing and on unions as a whole, but I feel that a 2008 style bailout is a bad idea. Having Boeing fail seems like it would have devastating consequences for the US economy and would really punish the global aviation industry, but propping them up only allows them to dig a deeper hole. This may turn into an extremely painful lesson on why a global duopoly in aviation was an arrangement that was doomed to fail, but we are where we are.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 4
I’m neither right nor left and agree with Richard, let the chips fall where they fall and then move on. No need for any government to come in and make things worse.
monstrok
John Clark 2
Interesting comment. Who on the Right has been asking for a government solution? I've been following this IAM contract story for months, well before the actual strike (because I am directly affected) and this is the first mention that such a position exists.
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue -1
Same here, who on the right is wanting Biden to intervene? I don't see a post to suggest that at all? Oh wait, it's CJ?
BillOverdue
Bill Overdue 0
Hmm, where is the post to suggest that? The hilarity of the left, is when they put words in other peoples mouths then call it "misinformation"!

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