On autopilot: 'Pilots are losing their basic flying skills,' some fear after Boeing 737 Max crashes

old news here....this has been a topic of discussion for many years...and it continues to be a problem. Go watch this video by Warren Vanderburgh (then chief pilot at American) and see if you think much has changed in the past 20 years...I would suggest not much has changed.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=child+of+the+magenta+line&&view=detail&mid=97CB347C1382F8B5212797CB347C1382F8B52127&&FORM=VDRVRV

Throw in a bunch of new pilots who got their training in simulators vs. the real world and the problem is maybe worse than it ever has been.

Not in any way implying that Boeing is pure as the driven snow in this one (nor Airbus in many other cases), but the state of pilot training in many parts of the world is pitiful...that's the gorilla in the room nobody wants to talk about. It's been dumbed-down like much of everything else these days floating around disguised as education/training. Simulator pilots are the order of the day...faster...cheaper. Safer? Probably fine in the 3-sigma scenario where most everything is working and the checklist covers it. Get outside of the box, and it's a crapshoot...not for me. Basic airmanship is a vanishing(ed) skill that only those who come up through basic aviation training will ever acquire.

I for one am more and more reluctant every day to jump in the back of a flying video game with guys up front who never sweated bullets in real IFR with basic instruments...and Their butt on the line. The only thing between you and the flight control computer code created by the bitbangers in a cube, other than the certification process which is often uncertainand less than adequate, is a professional pilot who can find his own backside when everything goes haywire. Otherwise, you are the next statistic. Understand that I think many airlines across the world do a fine job of training their folks....but there are at least as many that don't.

When the 'sh*t hits the fan' it is good to remember an old adage of my late father who was a WWII RAF Halifax bomber crew, in Ferry Command flying almost everything, an Empire Test flightcrew at Boscombe Down near Salisbury England after the war, and then until retirement at 60 on Boeing 377 Stratocruisers, Britannias, VC-10s, and finally DC-10s. Firstly AVIATE, then NAVIGATE and finally COMMUNICATE! This wuold be learned by todays' X Box pilots.

Anything that runs on a computer can be hacked. Period. The 737Max proves that poorly written software is as bad as hacked software. You need pilots in the plane, and they need to thoroughly understand the software, including ways to override it. A pilot operates under JAR (Just Ain't Right). A subtle sound can trigger a pilot's response long before a light flashes on. You just can't program anything close to a human brain.

"Welcome aboard Novus Flight 233, the first completely automated flight in history. There are no pilots on board, everything is computer controlled and nothing can go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...go wrong........

What nonsense, I fly the 737 often enough on hands up to FL200 or so, and so does everyone in our airline, yet our training captains all went into the sim to try the Ethiopia scenario and none survived with a factored reaction time of just two seconds.

This is just one tip of the iceberg in today's world. People want to hand their decision making to computers, not wanting to put in the time and effort to think for themselves. A recent ad by Microsoft sums this up, where AI is used to make better beer. really, have we come to the point where artificial intelligence is needed to brew up some cold ones? The matrix is coming....

I have been preaching this for a very long time...

If the problem was the pilots, the 737 Max would not STILL BE GROUNDED WORLDWIDE!

This is BS being vomited out to sow FUD about the pilots and try to take the heat off of Boeing.

We should not be designed aircrafts with such inherent stability deficiencies that they have to depend on automated systems to remain in flight.

Well said,

A former 767 Capt.

It's not a fear, it's a fact. The problem has been around a long time and continues to grow. In the rush to crew expanding pilot seats the many hours it takes to really get good basic flying skills is left behind. Many pilots today never had them to lose. Without a magic box most pilots I fly with today are clueless to compute a crossing restriction and have no idea of the effects of strong winds aloft on climbs and descents. They react instead of anticipate and manhandle flight controls instead of smoothly putting the aircraft where it needs to be. Yes, they can get the aircraft from point A to point B, but not without a lot of help from the aircraft itself and their capabilities in an emergency may not be what's needed. mtcw

How do you simulate 2000+ hours of hands-on basic flying experience?

Max 737 problems are not a Pilot issue and should not be confused as a pilot issue this is a issue of a system installed on a airplane that pilot were not told about , more then 350 people dead not a single person lost there job at Boeing , the CEO should be gone.

"November ## xray yankee zulu, turn 030 climb and maintain 5400." ...two dials.

Stick and rudder? What are those? Holy crap, grandpa!

where in the flight can or should any airline pilot hand fly his jetliner, except at takeoff and landing? can an airline insist on some minimum time of flight hours in a light aircraft without using autopilot or wing leveler, just so the long lost sense memory of actual control of flight is experienced? How many gliders should American or United or Delta purchase for this purpose? Just for laughs, please remove flight directors and use instead the old round guages that require the pilot to integrate the results of several gages into flight inputs, by hand through his intellect, and practice instrument approaches and go-arounds, just like in primary training.

It is not that automation is bad, but the programmers are not doing a good job. Now with the advent of AI a plane could be flown without a crew. But the AI needs to be heuristic and learn all the time. And the AI needs to share those lessons with others so they can also learn. With the sky increasingly seeing more and more flights, which will continue to swell over time. An AI is the only thing out there that can keep planes separated safely taking into consideration local weather and other data. A human can not keep all that data separate. With the advent of new supersonic and possibly hypersonic planes, humans can not think and react fast enough to keep up. Only a AI can do this. With a plane flying Mach 9 can you as a human make the correct decision in time? But right now, the programmers/engineers really need to work much harder at making sure their software actually works. And Boeing failed.

technology and computers have helped people improve and learn and investigate areas where they could not before..that applies in a lot of things from medicine to farming and also to aviation..the point is however, computers and technology are not meant to replace an actual human being,but only to assist in whatever task they are undertaking.."hands on" training should never be pushed aside for a computer chip,which are also made and programmed by people!skill,ability,education and training should never be of less importance than a computer program or an automated system..

Years ago these same sales representatives sold snake oil; now its the 737 Max. If it looks like it, and it sounds like it, then sure as heck don't step in it. So is it true that the plane cant fly without the auto program control system? One crash would have been one too many. Are they using firmware or software to compensate for a design flaw or two? Any airo-engineers with a straight answer? Not that any of these guys seem to reek of a slight conflict of interest, you know? Billions are at the runway.

In another 20 years or so I suspect that most aircraft will simply fly themselves. A lot of them basically do now but they keep a crew on board for critical thinking that a computer can not replicate.
If you think about it a lot of people would feel uncomfortable today walking on board a plane and there not being ang crew or pilot. Mostly because there has always been a crew. People are reluctant to change.
Once we start seeing Uber aircraft flying people with no pilot and cars driving themselves as a common everyday practice then people will start to get on board with this.
Now I am not advocating for a completely computer controlled aircraft with no crew or pilot as people need someone to complain to and bring them coffee and tasty beverages.