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Air Canada opposes Porter Airlines’ plans to bring jets to Toronto’s downtown Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport

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Porter Airlines (Toronto-Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport) wants to bring Canadian-built Bombardier CS100 jets to its downtown airport home (above). The regional carrier has been pushing politically for the Toronto City Council to vote yes on a city staff report on allowing jets at the small downtown noise-sensitive airport. (worldairlinenews.com) Mais...

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CaptainFreedom
CaptainFreedom 5
Who cares what AC thinks? Of course they don't like competition. It has lead to bankruptcy and bailout in the past.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, you would not expect them to roll over and play dead and they do have some legitimate gripes.
canuck44
canuck44 4
Look at the potential routes that Porter posted. If they can get it off with a full fuel and passenger load, virtually all North America will be in range. No wonder ACA is pissed and nervous.

If they don't like it, let them order a few of the C-100s themselves.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, they have said that noise makes the CS100's conditional. I figure the rest of that will too. A man better know how to fly though. Even with the extension, that runway will be tight.
canuck44
canuck44 2
If they get the extension, they will be longer than London City Airport which is just under 5K. Even an Airbus A-318 is authorized there. Here is their list:
http://www.londoncityairport.com/content/pdf/Types%20of%20Aircraft_and_Concessions.pdf
preacher1
preacher1 1
Yeah, I know, but it will still be tight and a pilot will need to be on their game.
canuck44
canuck44 3
Compared to LCY, Billy Bishop has much better clearance at either end of the proposed runway extension. Rather than having to climb over high rise offices as in London, the Toronto end of 26 climbs out over the lake which should keep additional restrictions off their operations.

Even if they get certification to fly out of YTZ, the question of available slots will arise. Porter has the potential to acquire 30 C-100s, but they will not get enough slots to use all of them from this airport. Their Q-400s are just as fast on the short routes to New England and cheaper to fly. Montreal and Ottawa are still going to be the major business traffic routes and again the Q-400 does the job just as well.

Obviously Porter intends to use the Aircraft from other airports expanding their North-South service. This would impact both AC and WestJet. HYZ to RSW would be wonderful, but I won't hold my breath.
preacher1
preacher1 1
What is their total length going to be after the extensions?
bizjets101
biz jets 1
4000 feet current - extending to 5000 feet.
preacher1
preacher1 1
According to specs for MTOW the CS100 will barely make it and the 300 cannot get off at MTOW. Like I said, a pilot will have to be on their game. Wiki has the specs, go look 'em up.
canuck44
canuck44 2
True, but those Embraer certified at LCY all have longer runs than the C-100. If you look at the possible routes, LAX and SFO would require the heaviest load for 2200 miles (fully loaded the range is 3400 miles) YVR is 2000 miles, the business centers in Texas about 1200, Florida about the same. None of the warm resort destinations are over 2200 miles. It is unlikely they would need to even come close to MTOW for most of their destinations.

Like most airlines, Porter tries to attract the business traffic. The C-100 easily reaches all of them in North America so the only question remaining is will they be able to fill the seats.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 2
Well, filling the seats should be possible for them, as they do give an excellent service for a competitive price. Everybody I know in Montréal has them as their first choice for a flight to Toronto, and not just because of their Billy Bishop destination.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well for all of them it will require different aircraft type as the 737 or 320 will not handle that distance at MTOW. As john said above, MTOW may not be a factor but will have to be looked at
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 2
I understand they won't be using their present aircraft on the new routes. My answer was simply to stress the very good reputation of their service.

Their present fleet is exclusively Q400.

https://www.flyporter.com/About/Our-Fleet?culture=en-CA
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, that is a given. I was speaking of Air Canada, WestJet and others
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
Ok, we're on the same page now. Looks like the CS100 was designed especially with Billy Bishop in mind, what other jets would be able to do the job?
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, the Embraers and probably CRJ's of some type but the CS100 series is probably the largest. If somebody really got horsey and cut some weight, you could probably see the 737 or 320 in there but I personally think it would be revenue prohibitive even if they could. Some cowboy will try it though.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
And there is always the noise restriction to contend with. Would the Embraers and CRJs be able to comply in that respect?
preacher1
preacher1 2
canuck44
canuck44 1
WestJet has already looked at using their 737's there, but with the offload needed they are range restricted and noise will be a problem. On a cost basis they are better to use their Q400s to New England.

Actually the best thing for WestJet would be to buy Porter before the price goes up if the C-100 is approved.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Yeah, I know. Those specs are all you got to sell tickets by though. As I said earlier, a pilot will need to be on their game as the margins will be close. It's very doable but you got to pay attention to what you are doing.
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 1
In other words, should be your kind of pilot! :)
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well.LOL

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