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AirAsia QZ8501 flight missing

Enviado há
 
An AirAsia Airbus A320-200 has gone missing on a flight from Surabaya, Indonesia, to Singapore, shortly after the pilots requested to change the flightplan because of weath, the airline said today. The plane, flight QZ8501, which reportedly had 162 people on board, lost contact at 7:24 a.m. local time near Belitung Island, Indonesia, according to a statement from AirAsia. It was scheduled to land in Singapore at 8:30 a.m. local time. (abcnews.go.com) Mais...

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preacher1
preacher1 3
Not unusual to be temporarily denied either
flyboy97222
Jason Rhew 3
FYI FL32 is 3200 feet and FL 38 is 3800 feet.
You mean to say FL320 and FL380
linbb
linbb 1
Also if there were other AC above they went thru just fine.
matt12gauge
matthew haney 0
Did not proof thanks
mx747
mx747 3
Only a complete idiot flies into a thunderstorm! If I piloted a plane for someone demanding I fly into the death zone, I'd find the sorry bastard and give him a Nick Barkley punch in the nose.
danarothrock
Dana Rothrock 1
I once flew Airtran from Houston Hobby to Atlanta. Instead of the usual direct flight over the Gulf, ATC routed us southwest down the spine of a very bad storm. We flew for over an hour in the middle of the storm which was only about 5 miles wide according to the Weather Channel. Lightning and hail was crashing all around the plane, dips and dives. The lady next to me was crying. People were throwing up. Then the pilot came on and said one of the engines was freezing up and he had to shut it down and restart. He said they have only done this in simulators, so Hail Mary. It restarted. We flew a few more miles and the other engine froze. Same routine. When we debarked in ATL an hour late I asked the pilot what was the story. He said ATC was in charge. There were probably planes stacked up when the storm swept through HOU, so they routed us toward Mexico.
rduke007
Martin Smith 3
§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator.
Hans58
Hans58 1
On some routes (e.g. Europe - South East Asia) one has to fly through thunderstorm areas as there is no deviation possible due to the huge affected area.
hjfischer1
Herb Fischer 2
First, I don't think any professional Pilot would knowingly fly into a Thunderstorm- maybe too close, or one in a Radar Shadow of another buildup. I always told my F/O's not to request deviation, tell them we are deviating and where and how far. It seems pretty likely that on this flight and AF, no matter how it happened, they got into a high speed upset. I can't help but wonder how the 'Bus's G Limiting might affect recovery from the upset? Thee more they make the airplane do for you, the bigger the problem becomes when it doesn't do it!
320drvr
Nicolaas Daud 1
as a colleague we also concern what was real went wrong and still waiting for the result they will announce the investigation after.I wished the mate co support all out with all respect.The commander was former fighter pilot for 10 years in F5 tiger in his time and we had used to work together in company flew Fokker 27 in early 90's.
mpradel
Marcus Pradel 2
Has anynone discussed this A/D yet?

http://www.bazl.admin.ch/lta_formular_db_jahrgang/2014/id_1336958.pdf
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Waiting for the FDR
Zahorsky
Zahorsky 2
Couple years ago, I was flying the same routing in a Piper Malibu and I remember there was no proper Radar coverage! Also I am amazed that after MH370 not found yet, airliner flying outside Radar coverage have no satellite-based tracking system, such as i have in my Malibu: http://www.zahorsky.net
MichealBeven
Micheal Beven 6
According to the reports, flight 8501 "was requesting deviation due to en route weather before communication with the aircraft was lost. There was a lot of wild weather around the area where the flight went missing. I pray that we should not hear the news like other plane mysteries of MH370, MH17 of 2014.

Nationalities of passengers and crew onboard are as below:
Indonesia 156
South Korean 3
Singapore 1

The number for the hotline is +622129850801.

http://goo.gl/GdLtOL
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 2
SPAM LINK *** IGNORE ***
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Welcome back, Ole
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Thanks, mate, how you doing?
FBI
FBI 1
a slightly disrespectful thread ^ considering!
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Respectfully- your comment is selective enforcement.
sparkie624
sparkie624 3
About the same scenario as the AirFrance... In Weather, Pitot/Static Icing, stall the plane... End of story.
hjordan
H Jordan 2
I'm obviously not a pilot. I thought planes carried radar altimeters.
Are they too expensive or complex to routinely put in planes?
Thanks, HJ
gsmith4151
harold smith 3
Most jet aircraft have radar altimeters but these are only used for low altitude, below 2,500 feet, usually during landing, and only as an aid to landing in bad weather, or at night. They will show altitude above ground which will vary a lot in mountainous areas when in level flight. So, it is not really a backup to the regular altimeter system
hjordan
H Jordan 1
Thanks
chalet
chalet 2
Sparkie624 I happened to read this info on an LH 321 that dropped 4,000 ft because of the blockage (freezing) of two Angle Of Attack (AOA) probes. Could this Air Asia accident be another case of frozen probes. That would be terrible.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
I wondered the same thing: when the plane involved was also an Airbus (320 v. 330), flying in adverse weather at high altitude over the ocean, and with the first officer being is a relatively inexperienced French pilot. Knowing how to fly is so important when the plane is blind and can't perform as expected. Let's hope it's not a case of not learning from a previous disaster.
chalet
chalet 0
Sorry Sparkie624 I forgot to paste the link http://avherald.com/h?article=47d74074&opt=0
snoopyq
matt knowles 1
if this were the case, why don't we see altitude drop on the ADS-B data ?
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
The ADS-B receives its altitude from the Transponder, The Transponder gets its information from the ADC (Air Data Computers). The Air Data Computers gets there data from the Pitot Static Probes. If they were frozen over the data would not have changed.
snoopyq
matt knowles 0
Thanks sparkie624. I'm no avionics engineer, so doing a bit of reading up on ADS-B & Mode S. The A320 is fitted with mode S which includes geometric GPS altitude (as well as the barometric altitude). Is this GPS data not logged somewhere?
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Keep in mind that GPS Altitude is not at all accurate... GPS Altitude can vary several thousand feet at 37,000 feet.
beretta01
beretta01 1
Seriously? I guess those LPV approaches rely on luck then...
beretta01
beretta01 1
You're probably getting confused with GPS altitude and barometric indicated altitude. There is a large discrepancy from what the altimeter reads and what our true altitude is, especially at altitude and in the flight levels; a WAAS(hell, even non-WAAS) GPS is MUCH more accurate than an altimeter will ever be.
hjfischer1
Herb Fischer 1
Sparkie, I thought it was pretty accurate. I remember back when the Feds were certifying each individual airplane for MNPS that they did it with GPS.
be400cpt
be400cpt 1
I wonder if the pitot tube mod had been done on this Airbus?
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
That has been my question... All US planes were required to be moded, but many overseas airlines do not follow our standards.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 1
I wonder if the pilot got far enough down the checklist to have actuated the ditch switch?

My hope is there are several rafts full of people located in today's search.
hjfischer1
Herb Fischer 1
Yep, Rick- the "Ditch Switch" just closes a few holes- doesn't help much if you go in vertically instead of horizontally.
chalet
chalet 1
What is the ditch switch

spatr
spatr 2
Closes all of the valves below the waterline....Avionics vent and extract, pack flow valves, RAM air inlet and the pressurization outflow valve. It does not "turn the plane into a boat" like the halfwits at CNN reported.
chalet
chalet 6
Thank you. Indeed the CNN crew is a pack of ignorant fools.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 2
Not a boat in any sense of the word, but it does allow 7 minutes flotation. Long enough to evacuate.
chalet
chalet 2
Well Capt. Sully´s 320 floated for more than 2 hours, didn't he.
spatr
spatr 3
Sully hit the water in a controlled manner. Since this crew didn't even make a radio call, I have a feeling that the ditching pushbutton would not helped.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Keep in mind that Sully was also a trained Glider and Float plane pilot and knew what to expect.... Even though he did not have much time to react, he did one thing right that many do not... He remembered to fly the plane, and did the best he could. His training and skills kicked in and save his passengers.... The water that Sully landed on is A LOT more calm than the open sea, especially during a storm.
boughbw
Brian Bough 1
Sully said they didn't get to the ditch switch... they fell from far less than cruising altitude and couldn't make it through the restart procedure. I'm assuming that this may be what sparked Mr. Wernicke's comment.
misbahtariq43
Misbah Tariq 0
This is really shocking and outstanding for me too again and hopefully it is safe and sound, but it is said that this is the area of thousands of miles of water and water where Malaysian Airlines went missing in March 2013. pray for AirAsia
styletribune
William Bennett -2
9 hrs on no trace of missing AirAsia flight, 162 including 16 children and an infant on board... oh my God, shocking,
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish -3
It was also reported that the first officer was a French national, as confirmed by French officials. That's another plane that disappears over the ocean with a relatively inexperienced French SIC in the right seat.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Where did you get "relatively inexperienced French SIC" from? And if he is not as experienced as the captain, even though he is French so coming from the country where they actually build the Airbus, then that is the reason he is SIC (= Second In Command). Or have you got any information that the FIC (= First In Command, i.e. the captain) was incapacitated?
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 0
Just have AF447 on the brain. It's a travesty to have a plane full of people come down from the sky into the dark ocean waters because of poor piloting. There were some parallels. Dark skies over the ocean at altitude in Airbus equipment with known pitot tube freezing issues.

I could't help but notice he parallels to that other story. Having a junior French co-pilot in an Airbus that goes missing from altitude over the ocean just reminds of that first tragedy.

It has been reported that sun light might be seen over the horizon at that early morning hour in that location. So if in fact the horizon line could be clearly identified in the darkness, then an identical repeat of the earlier disaster would be unlikely. But there's still the issue of freezing pitot tubes giving a false sense of security speed-wise and allowing the plane to stall from insufficient speed rather than from steep AOA.

There will be increasing use of automation in aviation (and everywhere). And in most cases the automation will make us safer overall. Bt when there is a problem, I want the pilot at the from of whatever plane I'm riding in to be a pilot and not just a systems operator. Having the hard skills (or rather NOT having them) have proven time and again to be the difference between life and death for passengers and crew riding in a plane when things go wrong.

I don't discount ay of the other options, like a bomb or weather, that may have led to a mid-air explosion. or a Muslim pilot-suicide.

However, it is being reported that the plane has been seen in underwater radar fairly intact. So that would make a mid-air explosion not likely. So I'm still left with it being one pilot being incompetent or the other being evil as strong possibilities. Hope I'm wrong, but we can't ignore possible causes.

In the end it may turn out to be a failure due to poor maintenance. Indonesia is not known for great aviation practices, with corruption and poor oversight. Though the plane had a young age. Also the parent airline's clear safety record up to now, shows that a low cost airline can be run in that part of the world successfully and safely.

Let's hope the record stays one of safety at least from an airline operational perspective. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at all possibilities critically.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Naturally, there are a lot of parallels and commonality, but each one can also be pulled back and refuted to some degree. It just behooves us all to hold for the boxes.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
Yes, indeed. The boxes will be quite informative.

Also, I hope that you're right. That the crash was a result of wx. Maybe they were caught in an updraft.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 4
Thanks for your comments PF. Here are my thoughts on the matter.

We know that the weather was terrible at the time QZ8501 was transiting that area, both the meteorologists and ATC have confirmed that. It has also been reported that the pilots called for a change to the flight plan either altitude or deviation from the planned route or both. Remember that most of the stuff you and I hear is mainly from news reports and how reliable are they? I have only heard what sounds plausible to me, that ATC confirms that the pilots called for an altitude increase due to weather but whether they received a clearance to climb, I have not heard.

Put yourself in the pilot's seat. Your weather radar is producing images showing SEVERE weather ahead. If you are in the clear, you can see enormous CBs towering up ahead. You know that at FL320 in that aircraft your climbing rate is not very good and your airspeed at max. safe power is not very far from the stall speed at that altitude, so if you are going to outclimb the peaks of the clouds you have to get going NOW. You can see it is going to be tight whether you can in fact climb over the peaks, so you are sweating as you with full power pull the nose higher than recommended, and in so doing you are getting very close to the stalling speed. You are not quite over the cloud as you enter the top of the cloud. In large tropical CBs there are enormously powerful up and down drafts at the edge of the cloud. Suddenly such a powerful updraft hits you, pushes your nose up very high while both you and your co-pilot in unison frantically try to push the control column forward to get the nose down and counteract a stall. But to no avail! Your aircraft shutters violently, stall warning horns wail loudly, then suddenly your aircraft stalls while in an unusual nose high attitude and full power. A violent stall ensues, your nose drops rapidly through the horizon which you can't see, because you are envelloped by the cloud, until the nose is pointing almost straight down. One of the wings also drop and the aircraft begins a roll. You can't stop the roll with your ailerons because your wings have stalled so you do the best you can by using opposite rudder. The roll slows down and the aircraft is now inverted, you are upside-down head down hanging in your safety harness (I hope you tightened it when you sat down). You have pulled the throttles back to idle because your nose is pointing straight down and you are rapidly bulding up speed, very, very rapidly. At this speed you will hit the water within 60-90 seconds. Before that if you cannot break the descend your aircraft will soon exceed the max. safe structural speed and then it starts to break up in mid air. First perhaps the engines get ripped off, next perhaps the tail and finally the wings and your aircraft is a brick which is trying to glide like a glider. Is there anything you can do? Perhaps. When the aircraft started into a roll and you ended up inverted, release the pressure on the rudder and let the aircraft continue the roll till it is right-side up again, while you do your best to try to get the nose into a position just above the horison while slowing down the aircraft to the best gliding speed (yes, that's true, even an airliner can glide). If you get the aircraft gliding you attempt to get the engines going, if you have still got them. If that fails then you continue a controlled descend whille telling the cabin crew to get ready for ditching. You do your best to try to get a surface landing as smooth as possible, but have no illutions, that is EXTREMELY difficult and very few pilots have ever succeeded! BTW in the midst of all of this why didn't you take time off to call ATC and explain your predicament??? I think you know why now! If you did NOT succeed you have no control any longer and you will likely crash into the water at high speed. At high speed water feels almost like concrete, so your aircraft will break up and it is unlikely that anyone will surevive.

So what did happen to QZ8501? We don't yet know, but if we can get our hands on the flight recorders then there is at least a level chance that we may find out. I'm sorry, please forgive for painting this sad scenario, folks.

Despite all of the above, FLYING IS STILL MUCH SAFER THAN ANY OTHER MODE OF TRANSPORT!!! When you next are going flying, please drive carefully on the road, so you can look forward to a pleasant flight.

My sincerest commisserations to the families and friends of the people who trvelled on QZ8501.

Ole
preacher1
preacher1 3
Well I agree with him seeing the storm and requesting to go up. He was momentarily denied, which is not unusual, kinda like the ATC guy saying wait a minute; past that is where the uncertainty starts. As he was denied climbing, then something took him up involuntarily and then put him in position for the rest that you have outlined here, in some form or fashion.
JBauer1
Jon Bauer 4
With tops reported at FL440, A320 is not going to outclimb the storm. I recall trying to outclimb a Southeat Asia thunderstorm in a fighter using full afterburner. The storm was building up about 1500 feet per minuite which was more than I could get at about the same altitude as 8501.

His weather radar may have shown a lighter area left and above which prompted the request to ATC.

IMO (never humble), there is no reason to attempt to penetrate a line of severe thunderstorms unless it is a general war or rescue operation for downed aircrews. Certainly not with pax just to meet a schedule.

Severe thuderstorms are tougher than airplanes.

A 180 back to departure point or alternate would be my call. Getting fired beats getting dead.

Yes, we certainly need to wait for the flight recorder data to determine what actually happened.
RCliff
Richard Cliff 1
Hi John. Hope things are going well. Do you happen to have a digital copy of the 69-07 yearbook ? Handy item. Please drop me a note when convenient. Regards. Rick Cliff info@clrwtrhs.com
RCliff
Richard Cliff 1
Oops. Apologies for misspelling your name.
hjfischer1
Herb Fischer 1
Ole, I'm with you until the nose falls. Then I think we start getting into the High Speed Upset scenario- where Mach Waves form and blank out the control surfaces. As we get lower and Mach 1 becomes lower, the waves go away and the airplane recovers- usually violently. As I said before, I wonder if 'Buses G Limiting software made a difference in recovery?
320drvr
Nicolaas Daud 1
thank you Ole for a Thought.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke -7
Just proof of what every zoologist knows. Frogs can't fly.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 5
Racial slur, not becomming Ric Wernicke.
320drvr
Nicolaas Daud 1
with all respect the AF447 flew by the airbus nationality made...any feedback...
elepcc
elepcc 3
In East Asia trandition, Red is happiness, grey is sadness.
vulcancruiser
Should have never left the gate. Meteorology briefings over there are practically non-existent. I happened to work for a global airline now deceased that had the best meteo people anywhere, and they prepared comprehensive turbulence plots all day long.

8501 is just a repeat of AF447. Severe storm, with a 747-100 freighter reporting updraft/downdraft of 6,000ft over the area at the same time. The pitots hit supercooling and give a High speed indication and this has the crew pulling back on the stick which has no "feel" to it to level out the perceived overspeed. At the same time the autopilot kicks off with the bad info, and depending on what info is left goes into "alternate law or direct law" with all the speed and bank protects off. The culture over there is autopilot oriented and they don't like to hand fly. So bad info, iced up in severe turbulence and we can all fill in the blanks. It may not have been survivable, it wouldn't be the first bird a severe storm has torn up. What we do know is it was not a good way to go.......RIP all who perished.....
hjfischer1
Herb Fischer 1
Well said, Larry
sparkie624
sparkie624 3
I hope they show up... I wonder if that plane as the updated Pitot Tubes... They were FAA Mandated, but not all countries required the upgrade. I hope they are all found safe...
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 3
PICTURE of the actual missing a/c

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=278321&size=l
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 3
List of passengers and crew on board

http://www.dephub.go.id/public/0506_001%20PAX%20AWQ8501.pdf
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 2
STATEMENT issued by Air Asia

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B56d1SnCAAAezEb.png
birtsjoe
Joe Birts 2
Think grey may be a sign of mourning. Red is the normal color of their logo and paint.
relangford
Roland Langford 2
The other "expert", Mr. Quest, has been just about as useless. Makes me recall watching CNN in Dublin to hear first that "It isn't known what airline is involved" when the HL call sign on the wing was clear in the televised pictures, to be followed by "Asiana is a cargo airline, so not well known to Americans" when the crash at SFO occured. It would be nice if (1) CNN wouldn't feel a need to have to keep saying something, and (2) "experts" wouldn't just say "we don't know anything about this event".
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 2
Information on the missing a/c

Serial number 3648
Type 320-216
First flight date 25/09/2008
Test registration F-WWBZ
Plane age 6.3 years
Seat configuration Y180
Engines 2 x CFMI CFM56-5B6/3
MSUSparty
MSU Sparty 2
Mary Schiavo needs to just shut up. She, as CNN's aviation "expert" has so far made two inane statements about what could have happened.

Mary Schiavo, CNN aviation analyst and former inspector-general of the US Department of Transportation, said weather can change quickly and there may have been little time to act.
QuoteThis weather system might have built up very quickly and they're on their own up there. With the weather up to 52,000 feet, and the operation ceiling is up to about 40,000 on this plane, so they might not have had many options.

The on board radar can see these cells 100s miles away the crew had many options to deviate left or right not try to out climb. They had many options. She is talking head with no on board experience.
chalet
chalet 3
The entire CNN crew are desperate to regain audience and think that the best way is to speak all kinds of balderdash and nonsense nonstop 24/7, and they call themselves experts. EXPERTS my you know what.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Expert: X is the unknown factor in algebra, a 'spurt' is a drop of water under pressure- thus Xspurt (Expert) is an unknown drip under pressure. Unfortunately, CNN reporters are too well known.
hemigpaw
Lynn Armbruster 0
typical comment from a spartan fan lol
PSBJ
PSBJ 0
Are you a pilot yourself?
MSUSparty
MSU Sparty 1
indraone01
andri indrawan 1
pray for AirAsia
allfive
don schaefer 1
Any comment on the reported possibility on Jan 1 that the pilot made a successful sea landing?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/01/airasia-crash-first-body-returned-family

If so, what might have been the scenario? Would recovery from a stall from whatever factors contributed to it be likely?
preacher1
preacher1 1
Stall recovery would have been possible, how probable is the question. If he did do some recovery, he may have regained partial control and could have attempted a ditching, but either flipped and/or was swamped and sank. We won't know until the plane is actually found and then the boxes tell their story
mjsracing1
Steve Shaw 1
Does anyone besides me think that somebody should have picked up a "ping" by now? Hopefully the FDR and CVR will shed some light on this tragedy....if it can be located. Prayers to their families.
gigagoga
George Gvadzabia 1
Isn't there a procedure that basically lets you fly blind by setting your power and trim at a certain combination that will keep the plane flying level? Is that something that only works with Boeing aircraft? (without the joystick like Airbus?) Could they have used that when stall alert might have come on?

Also, does the artificial horizon/attitude indicator get data only from the pitot tubes?
styletribune
William Bennett 1
BREAKING NEWS: This is the latest news update that an Australian aircraft detected AirAsia flight QZ8501 objects 1120 km from location where the plane lost contact.

Jakarta’s Air Force base commander Rear Marshal Dwi Putranto said he was informed on Monday an Australian Orion aircraft had detected suspicious objects near Nangka island, about 160 kilometres south-west of Pangkalan Bun, near central Kalimantan.

http://www.roomeetimes.com/airasia-flight-qz8501-wreckage-found-australian-orion-aircraft-spotted-1120km-plane-lost-contact.html
MichealBeven
Micheal Beven 1
The website also says that authorities are now trying to verify whether the objects relate to the Airbus 320. hope they can find it---good news---but the worst news for the families of the victims who are waiting for the miracle. This is really tragic.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
Well, "something", if it is something, still may not be total loss of life. Even on the virtually perfect Flight 1549 Hudson landing, after the passengers evacuated, I believe it drifted something like 4 miles.

*IF* it was a water or beach landing, I can't imagine how much damage it would have taken during the storms. I'm pretty sure Airbus didn't design them to be great boats.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Scully's plane drifted down the Hudson River at fast ebb tide. I've kayaked those waters many times in all kinds of tidal conditions. The plane wasn't just drifting. It was flowing fast, while being pushed by the flow of the river combined by the natural outward tidal flow that combine to really jet the waters out to sea quite fast. The plane floating in that water was just incidental. it would take quite a lot of energy to move that huge hunk of metal that was mostly under water in any direction that was different from what the water was doing. (Speaking from experience.)
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
I was just trying to illustrate that objects in the water move. So "landed near a beach" could be finding the plane far away from there.
MichealBeven
Micheal Beven 0
hope all is well....
misbahtariq43
Misbah Tariq 1
I hope and pray that it could be a theory or rumor like we got during the last biggest aviation mystries when Tony Abbot comes on screen and says, we found the Malaysian plane, US Navy stated, we will find MH370 in next 24 hours, but still this is the most shocking and unbelievable news of my entire life where we can trace a phone, but not a big plane...
Stoenworks
Hal Stoen 1
At this time everything is pure speculation. Having said that, human nature is such that one has to add ones personal speculation- it's just what we humans do. The only "hard" information that I've heard/read is that there was thunderstorm activity in the area and that the crew requested a climb and a heading deviation. The deviation in heading is understandable and appropriate. The climb part is not. For all intents and purposes one doesn't try to climb over a thunderstorm unless you're in a U-2 or similar high-flying aircraft. Topping a thunderstorm is just not in the average aircraft's capabilities. Plus, there's some really bad stuff going on up there like hail and extreme turbulence. And, while in the climb, the aircraft is much more vulnerable to stalling or upset due to the decreased airspeed. Deviation in heading to go around severe weather is the way to go, even, in the extreme, doing a 180 and getting out of Dodge.

The primary tool for the crew in their situation was their weather radar. And this device has the least "black and white" information of all the cockpit instruments. Interpreting the information being displayed is an art form in itself and it requires hours (years, really) of experience in balancing out the displayed information from tilting the antenna to the various range settings. Once again, pure speculation on my part.
FedExCargoPilot
FedExCargoPilot 1
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30619085

Read this and saw that ATC denied clearance to a higher altitude.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 0
He needed to climb to get over the storm, and turn to avoid the worst of it. That's why he requested it. The whole area was a nasty storm, turning around wouldn't have helped.

The CNN video helps show it. You already know about weather, so you don't need to listen to her narrative.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/28/world/asia/airasia-plane-weather/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
hiflier32
ric lang 4
I rarely comment on this site, but this entry demands a comment, the last of which is beyond belief, and one that only a non pilot would make. !. Climb OVER a storm??? If approaching a fully developed thunderstorm, unless you're in a U2 or SR71, you'll NEVER outclimb it, and to say "turning around wouldn't have helped" is the most idiotic remark I have ever heard. The 180 degree turn is the safest maneuver in aviation.
30west
30west 2
Topping a strong/sever thunderstorm poses many risks. My airline's ops policy manual requires 5,000' vertical clearance to overfly. With that being said, we don't know the circumstances or cause yet and that might have been his best option.
MichealBeven
Micheal Beven 1
BREAKING NEWS: AirAsia Indonesia confirms debris found in Karimata Strait in South East Belitung is of missing plane QZ8501.

http://www.roomeetimes.com/40-bodies-recovered-sea-wreckage-crashed-airasia-flight-discovered.html
styletribune
William Bennett 0
This is really really tragic and my hands are shivering while writing that it is also reported that bodies found which were holding hands of each other.... I wanna cry!!!
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
Michael Beven and William Bennet are fake profiles created to spam the forums with links to Roomee web properties. That site has been shown to spam these forums repeatedly after air disasters to prop up their viewership. But their information has been lacking. They would copy other websites straight without attribution. They would also pass off rumor as truth. I can' believe that Roomee is still allowed to use fake profiles to troll flightaware forums for self-promotion of a god-awful website.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 4
If that is correct then report them to FlighAware and ask them to investigate and if necessary ban the spammers from FlightAware.com
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 1
Last known position of the a/c

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B56U6r9CMAEi6Br.jpg
bardisviu
Claudia Santos 1
Once again, folks, let's look foward, airliners are flying by thousands in a daily basis, and what should be evaluated in terms of both piloting protocols and aircraft safety? We all are the victims, we are the clients. Who is next?
Brazil on line.
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Air Asia flight from Indonesia to Singapore loses contact with ATC

DEVELOPING STORY

An AirAsia flight from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore lost contact with air traffic control on Sunday, Indonesian media said, citing a Transport Ministry official.

Transport Ministry official Hadi Mustofa said the aircraft, flight number QZ8501, lost contact with the Jakarta air traffic control tower at 6:17 a.m local time. (2317 GMT).

He said the plane had asked for an unusual route before it lost contact.

This story is developing. Please check back for further updates.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102297363
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 7
This was not a "duplicate squawk" this was the very first squawk regarding this incident
LKnutson
Julie black 2
Yes indeed Kevin's post was the first. The time also indicates that.
ssjan
Jan F 1
Unfortunately FlightAware is like that... and their users downvoted a bunch of other squawks (not sure if yours was included). Mods and users alike are like that.
joelwiley
joel wiley 0
I noticed there were three posts- yours, Kevin Brown, Sainulabid Pothangodan. All had negative votes. At that time the one by Rob Gibbs was not there. I spent some time searching for more info and came back to this being the selected one.

[This poster has been suspended.]

JWSmythe
JW Smythe 0
Statistically, you're safer in aircraft than pretty much anything else, depending on how you view it (trips, distance, or time)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety#Comparison_to_other_modes_of_travel

I took this screen shot of the FlightAware map on 12/28/2014 at 0611 Eastern. That's a lot of aircraft that didn't have newsworthy events.

http://imgur.com/gVjmCHR

At the same time this event was happening, there was a burning ferry off of Greece, with 411 on board. They're still evacuating those people.

Unless there are some significant circumstances, car accidents, even fatalities, don't make the news.

Just like gun crimes, air accidents have an implicit fear for a lot of people, so they will always make the news.
CaptainJimmy
Jimmy William 1
Maybe because of the storm...while the captain was climbing to FL380 the speed was decreasing until it made stall and captain couldn't control it
It is like air france accident in 2009or 2010
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 1
Air Asia has changed its Facebook and twitter logo's to grey (from red)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B56jPGkIMAAN-tj.jpg
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 1
UPDATE:

Missing a/c is an A320 with 161 passengers and crew on board
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 1
AirAsia Indonesia regrets to confirm that flight QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore has lost contact with air traffic control at 07:24hrs this morning.

At the present time we unfortunately have no further information regarding the status of the passengers and crew members on board, but we will keep all parties informed as more information becomes available.

The aircraft was an Airbus A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC.

At this time, search and rescue operations are in progress and AirAsia is cooperating fully and assisting the rescue service.


AirAsia has established an Emergency Call Centre that is available for family or friends of those who may have been on board the aircraft. The number is: +622129850801.
misbahtariq43
Misbah Tariq 0
Indonesian media reports on Sunday say AirAsia Flight QZ8501 has crashed off waters near East Belitung. However, there has been no confirmation that the plane crashed or the wreckage has been found.

Fishermen Coconut Kampit, Beltim admitted listening to the sound of an explosion large enough Kampit Coconut water. This information is conveyed to the members Tagana who was preparing to perform a search.

The fishermen who were fishing the waters are located in Kelapa Kampit when he heard a loud explosion.
http://www.roomeetimes.com/airasia-flight-qz8501-potentially-crashed-belitung-timur.html
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Oh, hello! What have we here? Another Roomee Times SPAMMER?
*IGNORE*
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
I couldn't find any reputable news sources with that information. Until there is, it should be considered a rumor.

Even if the report is right, an explosion miles away, 100km+ from the last known position could be anything.
linbb
linbb -1
When an AC breaks up even a small one, C172 the reports from those on the ground was that there was a loud boom and then parts fell out of the fog.
chalet
chalet 0
And another plane goes down and not a single Sarsat, Imarsat, Radar, satellite, CVR/FDR radio or pinging signals were emitted pointing towards where this aircraft went down while a 10 cent chip adhered to my dog´s skin tells me where he is 24/7/365 with an accuracy of 10 nanomilimiters. Hello ICAO/IATA/ATA/BOEING/AIRBUS ETC. wheretofore are thou......
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 0
Wow! You should join the aviation industry, you obviously have all the answers and they are all dummies.
styletribune
William Bennett 0
The desperate stories of those waiting for news of their loved ones have begun to emerge.

The names of the crew on board missing flight AirAsia QZ8501:

Captain: Iriyanto
First Officer: Remi Emmanuel Plesel
Flight Attendants:
Wanti Setiawati
Khairunisa Haidar Fauzi
Oscar Desano
Wismoyo Ari Prambudi
Engineer: Saiful Rakhmad

The British passenger aboard the missing AirAsia flight was travelling with his two-year-old Singaporean daughter after other family members got an earlier flight from Indonesia, it is believed.

Unconfirmed reports of wreckage in Java Sea, 100 miles from last sighting, see the full list of passengers onboard flight AirAsia QZ8501 which is now being reported crashed off waters near East Belitung.

http://www.roomeetimes.com/airasia-flight-qz8501-passengers-victims-list.html
misbahtariq43
Misbah Tariq 1
My heart is crying....
allench1
allench1 0
Most likely a high altitude stall. Radar showed a ground speed plus headwind to be approx. 378 kts. indicated minus 180 at 36,000 ft = 198 kts.
ooxteme
kenny hawk -2
Are you saying it was a 180 kts. headwind? if not what is the 180 number indicate?
allench1
allench1 0
take the ground speed and add the headwind then that gives you his indicated airspeed minus the 180 kts due to his altitude and then you will arrive at his actual airspeed
30west
30west 0
That calculation (GS+Headwind Component) gives you true airspeed, not indicated airspeed.
allench1
allench1 -1
Typo meant indicated airspeed
allench1
allench1 1
Missed that last response as well I meant to say true airspeed on original quote. Should not be on line now anyway. Waiting in hospital for my wife to come out of heart surgery at sacred heart destin fl. Thought it would help this old 70 year old gezzer get focused on something else. My apologies
30west
30west 0
I thought that is what you meant. I know what you are talking about, i"m only a handful of years behind you. ;-) I'm saddened to hear about your wife's surgery. I will pray for both of you, my friend.
allench1
allench1 1
What a generous and caring response which is much appreciated John. You are restoring my faith in humanity.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 2
@allentech1
Maybe I can add a little to encourage you and your dear wife. I'm 73 and had open heart surgery 2 years ago at Prince Charles Hosp. in Brisbane. I had to have the aortic valve replaced as it was stiffening up (called stenosis), so blood no longer flowed freely from the heart into the aorta to be destributed around the body, and that is not a good situation, you most probably can only look forward to a few years of bleak existance, if you don't get something done to fix it.

Everything went well, it seemed, until after 4 hours they started up the heart and I began haemoraging. So they stopped the heart again, called in an extra pair of eyes, a 3rd surgeon, to help locate the problem. After 2 more hours they had finished and started up the heart and now everything was fine. At no time did they give me blood at my request but they used a cell- salvage machine to suck up the blood oozing out of the wound, punp it through a cleaning filter and straight back into my veins. I only lost about 150 ml of blood, not even a glass of water. And I'm fine now, ride a bicycle I bought to ride around the rural area here to get exercise. IMHO better to enjoy the scenery than riding a stationary bike in your lounge room while watching TV. Of course it never snows here in Queensland (at least I haven't seen any in the 40 years I have lived here).

So, my friend, I hope your wife's surgery was as successful as mine and she hopefully can look forward to many happy years with such a caring husband as you obviously are.

Cheers,
Ole
ashokmercuri
Ashok Mani 1
I am not a pilot.........and like most others i am fascinated by flight and aircraft. I stumbled of FlightAware......and have been reading the posts.

I also posted some typical naive inquires like ........'Disappearance from the RADAR' ........and i thought the RADAR tracked anything that moves in the air space.

I also posted about the Satellites tracking or handshaking with the aircraft .......

All of what i read from the media and more recently when MH and Now Air Asia lost aircraft.....

I wanted to pull myself out of this forum because someone made a rude comment and i realized that this forum may be only for ' EX and Active Pilots'.....

Reading this particular post from you ........is very moving. I admire your continued passion into Flying......and am amused about you riding the bicycle and enjoying the scenery......while you must have enjoyed the take offs and scenery from above while landing and taking off......

I sincerely hope things work out well for you, your wife and your other colleague who was on this subject in this forum........

Regards
Ashok
joelwiley
joel wiley 0
Best wishes for successful outcome and rapid recovery
allench1
allench1 -2
Thanks Joel your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Will respond when Wanda is out of danger.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
How's your wife?
allench1
allench1 -1
Still waiting. Thanks Thrustt I have enjoyed your many comments over the years as well as the pure southern country responses from Preacher. Hope your year went well and will improve through 2015
rbhallett
Roger Hallett 0
John, 70 is the new 50! Best wishes from OZ (YCFS) for your wife's recovery. Lots of us oldies have been through heart surgery.
rbhallett
Roger Hallett 0
Sorry - I meant this to be addressed to allench1.
allench1
allench1 -1
Thanks Roger good to hear from New South Wales. I had open heart in 2005. Stop flying. Wanda is recovering and doing well, she had pressure problems within her right side of the heart as well as valve prolapse.
ashokmercuri
Ashok Mani 1
I am not a pilot.........and like most others i am fascinated by flight and aircraft and more so the smart people like you in your (usually ! ) blue uniform.

I stumbled of FlightAware......and have been reading the posts.

I also posted some typical naive inquires like ........'Disappearance from the RADAR' ........and i thought the RADAR tracked anything that moves in the air space.

I also posted about the Satellites tracking or handshaking with the aircraft .......

While aircraft have life jackets to give a chance for people to live again when landing in water.......i wonder is it that the designers have decided that if an aircraft is going to hit land then there is no 'chance' at all for the passengers and so do not have para chutes to bail out...

All of what i read from the media, Air Crash Investigation on Nat Geo.. and more recently when MH and Now Air Asia lost aircraft.....

I wanted to pull myself out of this forum because someone made a rude comment and i realized that this forum may be only for ' EX and Active Pilots'.....

Reading this particular post from you ........is very moving. I admire your continued passion into Flying......i have always wondered what does it feel for people like you who give up on flying due to age or medical conditions and what do you think when you see an aircraft go over your head.......


I sincerely hope things work out well for you, your wife and your other colleague who was on this subject in this forum........
allench1
allench1 0
I am trying to keep this as simple as possible for you by staying away from aeronautical terms as much as possible in my previous quote so I have added this one to hopefully help you understand. as attitude increases so does the stall speed of the airplane as the air gets thinner and therefore requires more airspeed to keep the aircraft flying in the thinner air. In most cases aircraft flying at 35,000' and up are usually going only 20 to 40 kts. over their stall speed as the stall speed increases with altitude due to the lack of lift in thinner air. I hope this helps
linbb
linbb 1
And if you think that's bad read an article written by E Gahnn when he flew in the two seat U2 at 80,000ft. They do not hand fly it as the difference between overspeed and stall is 10 knots.
linbb
linbb -2
Read what is written everything doesn't have to have letters indicating what is being discussed.

[This poster has been suspended.]

linbb
linbb 0
Yes and who knows how good there security is at the airport. Look at our US security and what has gotten thru along with what has been smuggled on by support people even some working for TSA.
nasdisco
Chris B -1
Forget the Bermuda triangle.

There is something strange going on in the Malayasia/Indonesia region.
DSHartje
Dwight Hartje -4
I agree. I wonder if there is a successful high-jacking conspiracy going on. I believe this is the third airliner to go missing recently.
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 0
The civil aviation authority of Singapore has issued the following statement:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B56jWudCEAERX8u.jpg
FOSTERLEE
FOSTER LEE 0
I WAS RECENTLY ON AN AIR FRANCE FLT FROM PARIS TO VENICE. THE PASSENGER BEHIND ME KEPT KICKING AND KICKING THE BACK OF MY RECLINED SEAT. I GUESS BECAUSE HIS LENGS WERE TOO LONG!! I CALLED A MALE CABIN CREW(FRENCH) TO TELL THE PASSENGER BEHIND ME TO STOP IT AT ONCE. IF I HAD DONE WHAT A NORMAL PERSON WOULD HAVE DONE IE GOT UP AND PUNCHED THE CRAP OUT OF HIM, I WOULD HAVE BEEN DETAINED AND MY HOLIDAY RUINED. THERE ARE ARSEHOLES ALL OVER THE WORLD YES BUT NONE MORE THAN THIS PASSENGER BEHIND ME. I WISH HIM LIFESTYLE SUCCESS AND MAY GOD BLESS HIM IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY.
KevinBrown
Kevin Brown 0
http://gotnews.com/breaking-muslim-malaysian-authorities-focus-sexy-air-asia-stewardesses-passenger-safety-qz8501/
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
A much better version of the Article: http://www.cnn.com//2014/12/27/world/asia/airasia-missing-plane/index.html
joelwiley
joel wiley 0
see also Flightaware squawk
http://flightaware.com/squawks/link/1/24_hours/new/45809/AirAsia_flight_missing
Londo38
Yves Lafleur 0
NEW France24 say this airpline was crash to confirmed
Londo38
Yves Lafleur 0
Air aiso Facebook change to Grey
https://www.facebook.com/AirAsia
joelwiley
joel wiley 0
Flight crew requested unusual routing according to reports. Weather factor perhaps?
birtsjoe
Joe Birts 0
Supposedly, requested change in altitude due to weather.
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 0
Also on BBC... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30614627
birtsjoe
Joe Birts 0
CNN showed an overlay of satellite weather along the flight route and it looked NASTYT!
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Maybe that is why the pilots requested a higher altitude. The area where they went down is almost exactly on the Equator. At this time of the year at this location the tops of severe thunder storms, cummulus nimbus, can reach 45,000 feet and sometimes higher. How do you think it would feel like to fly through one of those? Of course, if you cannot climb over the cloud with at least a couple of thousands of feet clearence, then you MUST fly around them.
preacher1
preacher1 1
A lot of Airlines have a requirement of 5 grand clear over the top or go around
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Of course, that's why I said "at least".
ptolemy98
sherwin nelson 0
Actually flew on this aircraft a few months ago. Ouch.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Why "ouch"?
Did you not have a good flight with AirAsia?
I have flown with them a number of times. No complaints here, much preferred to an American airline, the stewardesses are much more pretty.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Your standard is if the "stewardesses are much more pretty"?
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Absolutely!
Look at my name: Ole Eskildsen good old Danish Viking name.
The Scandinavians, in case you don't know, are good natured, easy going folks, hence a small joke from me. I'm sorry if the humor was missed by you, next time I shall add (alert "joke").
I hope you have a good flight next time you fly with AirAsia or any other airline.

There seems to be a misconception by many people, even some writing here, and that is:
Only American, European (mostly), Australian and perhaps a few other airlines have high standards of operations & procedures, crew traning, and maintenance!
OH REALLY?

Do you REALLY think that ANY airline ANYWHERE in the world DELIBERATELY skimp on equipment, ops & proc, crew training & standards, and maintenance
JUST SO THEY CAN SAVE SOME BUCKS???

Think about it: How much do you think a crash like this one is going to cost AirAsia, even if some parts *may* be covered by insurance?
For many a small airline a crash such as this could be their end, the cost could easily be so great that the airline goes bankrupt!

So, NO! I for one do not believe that airlines are DELIBERATELY taking such risks with their passengers, crew and equipment! They simply cannot afford to, quite aside from the all the sadness and agony suffered by families, friends, and colleagues.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Easy there big fella. Just FYI I happen to be of Scandinavian descent. As for the rest of your rant, it has absolutely nothing to do with my small (clearly small) joke. Your small joke wasn't lost on me. I was giving you the rib right back. I'm sorry if the humor was missed by you. Now relax before you bust a vein.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Oh, thank you for your joke, little fella.
As for Scandinavian, I don't want to sound critical in case you get offended, but it is a bit difficult to imagine your name being Scandinavian. No matter, I take your word for it, so welcome in the club.
Vi snakkes,
(eh, talk to you later or as the young people say TTUL8R),
Ole
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
It would take quite the imagination since my name doesn't appear anywhere around here. However, I will tell you my paternal grandmother's maiden name is Soderberg. Swedish enough?
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
P.S. - It's svenska flicka not little fella.
Mboomgaarden
Marc Boomgaarden 0
What is the reasoning/significance of the change of logo color??
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Well, grey color is not as easy to spot in the water, red and orange is much easier to see by the human eye. I believe it does'nt matter to dogs, they reportedly only see black and white, which is probably why they have such good ability to smell. That is also why they are being used at airports to smell out drug carrying passengers. Could you imagine the authorities using drug-cats or drug-pigs?
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
The logo color change was on their website, one explanation was red is the color of happiness, greay of mourning. Sort of like dropping the flag to half staff/mast. Dogs see colors, they are something akin to red/green color blindness.
nsikakharry
Nsikak Harry 0
Sadden to hear about this. My prayers to them.
nasdisco
Chris B 0
23 no shows for that flight. They need to go pray and thank their lucky stars.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
WOW! Pray and thank their lucky stars.
Where can you get them, I must get some before my next flight.
Oh, no, my next flight will take me almost exactly over that same body of water. Now I'm beginning to wonder: COULD THIS BE A CLONE OF THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE? Just asking.
tinah1
tina hammond 0
How awful must the ATC official who denied the change of altitude feel.

RIP all on board
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
Well, yes and no. I can't imagine there wasn't a valid reason for the denial, and that it wasn't given on a whim. However invalid it may be, yes, the poor ATC is likely suffering the "what ifs". Who wouldn't?
FOSTERLEE
FOSTER LEE 0
Does someone out there know the probable cause of the disappearance of MH370? There is mounting comment about Diego Garcia having a "part" to play. Is this true and if so could the truth be revealed for the families and relatives of the perished. Please do a humane gesture and reveal the truth to all of the World!!! We deserve it.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Go back to the squawks page and search on MH370- there are a half hundred articles that cover the subject of MH370. Some of the mention Diego Garcia. You can use Google to find other forums on the subject.
Tda43
Tim Arthur 0
CORRECTION - why have the Electronic Location Devices (ELT) devices not worked on the last 2 major crashes (malaysia 370, airasia 8501)?

Does the average ELT have a low operational success rate?
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
There is an excellent explanation of the workings and use of ELTs. Why don't you read that and see if ELTs would have been at all usefull in these situations. Why don't YOU do your own research before asking questions? To make it easy for you, here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon
Tda43
Tim Arthur 0
why have the ELT devices not worked on the last 3 major crashes (malaysia, ukraine, airasia)?
chalet
chalet 2
ELTs seem to work fairly well when aircraft go down on solid ground but not behind mountains though; over vast expanses of wáter they are absolutely useless. And the whole thing looks even more shameful for every single entity that is connected with aviation safety when you have migrating birds, dolphins, whales and all sorts of animals that can be tracked thanks to a 10 dollar chip embeded in their skin.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 0
9:03pm Malaysia, 8:03AM Eastern.

[This poster has been suspended.]

OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
As I always say: Channel 9 is on the ball!
How did they find out?
Oh, I know, I have seen their news chopper flying around my area on many occasions,
they obviously landed on or hovered just above the surface and checked out the debris.
Well done, Channel 9, I will always trust your news.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe -1
Apparently there were two different sightings.

One was the debris, approx 1100 miles from last known location, spotted by an Australian search team. That was confirmed to be not related.

The other is oil and debris. They said results will be shared in the morning. It is currently 9:03pm in Malaysia (8:03 Eastern)
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Eh, I thought we were in Indonesia now ???
Your quote: "It is currently 9:03pm in Malaysia"
Oh, well, I suppose it's much the same, they speak almost the same language, so it must be the same place.

[This poster has been suspended.]

OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Oh, yes, that would explain it, Boeings NEVER crash!
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, the cause will be interesting. If it was wx related, I doubt the AC brand would have made much difference
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Hi Preacher, so what you are saying is that even Boeings and other aircraft may crash if they are flown into very bad weather by an aircrew which doesn't doesn't realize the seriousness of their situation.
I agree with that.
Of course with their weather radar and other relevant instruments the crew should have realized the seriousness of the situation and the captain declared an emergency or PAN and insisted on a change of routing and/or altitude to save his aircraft. If not available even considered turning around until a suitable alternative route/altitude could be cleared.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Kinda looks like he tried. I just think he got caught by something, probably an updraft, before he had the chance to do anything. I really don't think we had a pilot problem here. IMHO
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 0
Objects and a pool of oil spotted by search crews are being tested to see if they are connected to the missing AirAsia jetliner, the head of Indonesia's National Search and Rescue Agency said.

Bambang Soelistyl, speaking at a press conference after the Day 2 search was suspended, said he can't confirm that the objects or oil are from the plane. Test results will be shared Tuesday, he said.

Other objects reportedly spotted by an Australian search team were not connected to the plane, he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/objects-reportedly-spotted-search-missing-airasia-jet/story?id=27873296
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 0
Object spotted not from AirAsia

Object spotted in sea was not from AirAsia plane, reports AFP.

An object spotted during a sea search for an AirAsia plane was not from the aircraft, Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said on Monday after reports that an Australian surveillance aircraft had found something.

"It has been checked and no sufficient evidence was found to confirm what was reported," Kalla told a press conference at Surabaya airport from where the ill-fated plane departed.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/airasia-live-objects-spotted-in-sea-not-from-missing-flight-qz8501-2018971.html
Bauskristie
Kristie Baus 0
Prayers to the families. Such a tragedy.
jaspc
Jose Suro 0
It's an eyeball search now, as usual. In this day and age isn't that getting kind of old? Like 1950's old?
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
WOW! Can you remember that far back?
evolution01
Stephen Pugh 0
Word has it that the aircraft was travelling at 160kts slower than its desired speed. There is talk about the aircraft climbing to an higher attitude due weather, extreme head winds plus a slower speed maybe AOA to steep = stall.?
allench1
allench1 -2
I am tried to keep this as simple as possible for you by staying away from aeronautical terms as much as possible in my previous quote so I have added this one to hopefully help you understand. as attitude increases so does the stall speed of the airplane as the air gets thinner and therefore requires more airspeed to keep the aircraft flying in the thinner air. In most cases aircraft flying at 35,000' and up are usually going only 20 to 40 kts. over their stall speed as the stall speed increases with altitude due to the lack of lift in thinner air. I hope this helps
be400cpt
be400cpt 1
actually a wing will stall at any speed; the angle of attack is the important and only determining factor in a wing stalling.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Bank angle as well will have an effect as well.
krschneider
Karl Schneider 1
Only because it increases the effective AOA.
AABABY
AABABY 0
Doesn't the stall speed actually decrease at altitude?
allench1
allench1 1
Frank in non aerodynamic terms because of the less dense air the plane has to fly with the nose higher above the horizon thereby creating more drag which in turn raises the stall speed. For pilots at these higher altitudes when a pilot needs to climb from say 34,000 feet to 39,000 feet to avoid weather he would need to add power to increase his speed to eliminate the possibility of a stall, often referred to as coffin corner by pilots.
AABABY
AABABY 0
Just a confusion in terminology, I guess.
Thaks for the reply.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
No, it will increase due to lower air density. The air cannot hold as much weight so to say. Stall speed at altitude is higher. Do not know by how much.
AABABY
AABABY 0
And thanks to you as well, Sparkie624
allench1
allench1 0
this was meant for Kenny Hawk.
ooxteme
kenny hawk 0
Ok first off.... Dad = 35 years a aircraft mech. (jet aircraft) 2nd = brother, airline pilot 3rd = i also fly privately so no need to be a smartass! Im perfectly fine with "aeronautical" terms. Ground speed means nothing, a small 172 can actually fly "backwards" if in a strong enough head wind if you are looking at ground speed. II think you mean INDICATED or TRUE AIRSPEED! Ground speed has nothing to do with a aircraft stalling or not. Larger commercial aircraft have sytems (AIRDATA Computers) that calculate head wind, tail wind ect., air temp and also the altitude and compute indicated and true airspeed. O and you never answered my question!
allench1
allench1 1
You are way too experienced and smart for me SA I only have over 35000 hours flying heavy aircraft. I answered your Q in line with not knowing the answer which would not have to be asked by an experienced pilot and I did answer your Question.
linbb
linbb 0
Hate to rain on your parade Kenny but small AC also have the same data available in the form of I pad data links and such. Not just large AC have that capability any more even home built and LSA can also have it.

[This poster has been suspended.]

OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Well said!

[This poster has been suspended.]

linbb
linbb -1
Was just a post on another site he forwarded to this site. It is quite probable that was the case as they were deviating around weather. Its happened before that an AC has gone head to head with something hidden and lost.
bardisviu
Claudia Santos -4
Once again, among many speculations, one question remains: are commercial pilots skilled good enough to decide in a second what to do next in emergency situations?

Brazil on line.
linbb
linbb 2
Yup they kida practice things all the time why don't you use a search engine since you have a computer and no knowledge of the qualifications needed to be a pilot and with that many hours.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
What do you think?
Do you fly with them?
joebarr
Joe Barr -1
Aircraft missing is PK-AXC an A320-216
AB3DC
AB3DC -1
Here is the radar screen grab of QZ8501 seen by Pontianak Rdr passing Fl363 w 353kts grnd speed, tracking west. Brg 141° frm RAFIS at 52.9NM.
http://imgur.com/nuPVOcC

Image posted by on Twitter by GerryS:
https://twitter.com/GerryS/status/549163093368913920
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Bearing 141° - tracking WEST ???????
Either there is something wrong with my compass, or
something else is wrong.
aidaspot7455
aidaspot7455 -2
aisa lost another airplane aisa lost another airplane!!
those idiots :)
hiflier32
ric lang 2
Ummmmmm.ASIA. Idiots huh?
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
AirAsia have never before had a fatal crash. Which other major airline besides Qantas can say that?
gogleeyed
Wayne Arnold -2
I like your comments allench1,I would only hope to have half the flight hour's that you have-I to live in Florida,fly mostly out of (LCQ)lake city municipal only light A/C not type rated -also before I get to far along -I hope you and your wife are doing well and that everything went fine on her surgery-as you know flying in FL can almost be compared to that part of the world (ASIA) during the summers we get are share of whoppers, the whole thing that is confusing to me about this accident is -first the Airbus itself,with the flight computers, and not letting the pilot over ride it -so it can be flown manually, then I thought -like a student practicing stalls in a little 150 -then for what ever the reason, he let's The plane get into a "stall spin" and then recovers -after that he will either keep practicing stalls, but keep the plane coordinated -and the results would be fine -or -he stops practicing stalls, in which case the results would be fine -because there wouldn't be a plane in a unusual attitude -so why didn't this pilot with all of his hours,do something that a student would have the since to do -and avoid the storm cell,at all cost,then the chain of events would have been broken, and second even if he got into turbulent circumstances(which I'm sure it was) and the plane was being tossed around and the computer was fighting with him -he was getting ice, maybe hail -why in the world didn't he recognise the high altitude stall,knowing the fact the plane has had issues with the pitot sys (and again 3to4 day's into a students learning)he learns -aviat,nav,com,-he is PIC why didn't he just say or not say it(unable)ATC could see it on the scope -and begin his climb(even to me that sound's odd from a heavy pilot)and his heading deviation to get the situation under control,and maybe in do'in so,the computer would accept the inputs and the situation would have been better -I just think that pilots of these highly sophisticated A/C kind'a forget there basic -stick and Rudder proficiency if you understand what I'm trying to say -maybe it is a cultural thing as well, even with my limited category and hour's -I know what kind of pressure you can have put on you to make the trip -and I realise I'm assuming a lot when I say "stall" the A/C, I must lean more on something catastrophic happening from the last time they contacted ATC, untill they lost the radar return -I'm guessing in those few minutes -and I don't really know how much time lapsed from there radio call until -the signature was lost, but I'm sure they were doing there best to regain control, before they were lost, and again I'm saying this with the hope's that they would all be found safe on one of the island's that are around that part of the ocean -I can't help but to think back to the British "comet" and the cause of them plane's being lost -and it just seem's to be a similar situation only that happened 60 yrs ago -but eventually there was a problem found with the comet, and I'm just curious to see if after it's all over -that they don't find some flaw in the V-A,V-B,V-FC,or maybe V-S,so many factors -it's 2:30 my time in the USA,and I haven't heard anything new, from the last two ( Brazil to France) and the Malaysia flight that has been missing since March of this year, don't recall the flight#s -I guess I just hope they can find it period -like another reader said he has a micro chip imbedded in his dog's neck that transmits 24/7-365 to a receiver and he never can get lost -it does make you wonder, how come not on the plane
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
ARE YOU FOR REAL?
You are ranting and raving (in very poor English, I might add) about something you clearly know nothing about.
I will tell you why the Airbus does not have a 10 cent microchip embedded in its neck:
AN AIRBUS HASN'T GOT A NECK!
That's a dumb answer for a bunch of dumb questions.
preacher1
preacher1 0
His reply(rant) is directed to a previous conversation to allench1. He, admittedly, is a low time pilot and looking toward a retired ATP and Eastern Captain for understanding, not a smart ass remark.
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
@preacher1 & Wayne Arnold

Thanks, preacher, I stand corrected!

Sorry Wayne, I was a out of order with my comment.
Regarding the microchip you were referring to: You obviously cannot use such a simple device which you have inserted under the skin of your dog, but your implied critique of the aviation industry not getting a suitable device installed in all commercial aircraft is valid. However, I believe moves are afoot to rectify that situation. After all most of us run around with mobile phones with a similar device, which do not cost very much. Cost is obviously not the issue here. Design, installation and testing will take time and cost some money. After that it will be a natural for most aircraft to have such devices, even the light aircraft you fly out of Florida.

Keep flying and safe landings.

Ole
preacher1
preacher1 2
You are forgiven. LOL. In actuality, cost is a factor on any retrofit. As you say, probably not a deal on new stuff but as such, it will be several years before we see it as widespread.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
I did enjoy your reasoning on the AB chip....
QiVanguard
xin qi -2
another AF447 style crash? or the weather was just too severe and the aircraft was torn apart?
PhilipS7440
Philip Nunyabis -3
Get the NTSB over there pronto. Those guys get the job done. It has been proven time and time again. If anyone is relying on these incompetent Malaysians to investigate this issue effectively, it will be yet another debacle and they put too much emotion into everything on top of their underlying incompetence. No one is better capable than the NTSB and they are solid guys (yeah that's right).
OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
That's right, they certainly have a lot of experience from American crashes.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
There are protocols that have to be followed.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/foreign.aspx
lolia
lolia -3
Awful news. AirAsia is owned by Malaysian Airlines.
AONeal79
AONeal79 2
Source? All I'm finding is that they're competitors.
birtsjoe
Joe Birts 0
An alliance of low cost airlines controlled by former Time Warner executive Tony Fernandes' company Tune Air Sdn Bhd. In August 2011, AirAsia agreed to form an alliance with Malaysia Airlines by means of a share swap.[10] The alliance was struck down by the Malaysian government, in effect voiding the agreement of both airlines.
Source-Wikipedia

[This poster has been suspended.]

preacher1
preacher1 2
poor baby; life ain't fair; not everybody, contrary to what you may have been told, can win. Some do lose.
On the serious side, you can look when posting to find out if a duplicate or similar squawk has already been posted and decide whether or not to continue.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Is this the first time you discovered life can be unfair? You posted the squawk 3 days ago as of 1/1/15. At that time the story was already submitted as a squawk which pre-dated your submission. As such, theirs was considered the first or original post. Yours, being later, duplicated the earlier post and is acknowledged as such below. As the subject of the post demonstrates, life can be unfair.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
You want unfair? Google "Elisha Gray Telephone"
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Words fail me.
evolution01
Stephen Pugh -3
Òne can only speculate that red is the colour of blood !!! I do hope its not the case.

[This poster has been suspended.]

JWSmythe
JW Smythe 4
1) Have you looked at the maps at all? Planes are flying through there right now.

2) The "Bermuda Triangle" is a fairy tale. There is no statistical significance to it over any other place.

3) No aliens, terrorists, trans-dimensional portals, or mysterious appearances of the sequence 4 8 15 16 23 42.

Now just stop with the nonsense.
aidaspot7455
aidaspot7455 -4
Asia lost another plane! Asia lost another plane!
Those idiots cant keep track of there own planes :)
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
How many aircraft can a continent have? How can a continent lose an airplane?
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
Like .. umm .. Asia? A lot.

Click on the "Traffic Viewer" and zoom out so you're looking at Asia (or anywhere you want). It may take a little bit to load.

Or you can look at one that was done just a few days ago. At 6am eastern, the region you're questioning shows more traffic than North America.

For the best impression of what air traffic a region has, wait until it's mid-day there. Make sure you zoom out a good bit extra so you can see inbound and outbound flights.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
You missed my point. Continents don't own planes.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
Sorry.. I replied when I was tired. In my mind, the two comments were one by the same person. Now I see that's wrong.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Not a problem, sometimes my comments are a bit obscure.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
What's your source? I don't see any info on this.
CaptainJimmy
Jimmy William -5
Isn,t this a strange?
3 planes of the same country & the same year are missed ?
Is there another PARAMODA tringle?!!!
PhilipS7440
Philip Nunyabis 2
The nut house called...wondering why your bed was empty.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
After reading this, I dove under the covers, and I'm still hearing Jingle Bells playing in my head...
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 0
Did you check the live flight tracker here? That's a relatively busy area. There were still commercial flights going through there.

Even right now, in the middle of their night, there are a few commercial flights over that part of the ocean. This is a just sampling.

(flight) (airplane designation)
XAX214 A333
AAR761 A333
MAS139 A333
GIA577 B738
SCO6 B772
KAL628 B77W
JST13 B788
Enricomariarosso
Any possibility for a "bomb" onboard?
linbb
linbb 1
WOW with that comment am surprised you know how to operate a computer. That must have come right out of the UFO theory am sure will show up next before they find the flight recorders. Must have a crystal ball.
JWSmythe
JW Smythe 1
Look up a few more comments. "Is there another PARAMODA tringle?!!!" I think that is close enough to UFO.

And to answer him... no. No indication of any terrorist event. Just very bad weather, and the radio call immediately before is the clear indicator.

[This poster has been suspended.]

JWSmythe
JW Smythe 4
Negative. Only 6,100 hrs flying the Airbus A320 *at* AirAsia Indonesia.

From their most recent release (50m ago)

The captain in command had a total of 20,537 flying hours of which, 6,100 flying hours were with AirAsia Indonesia on the Airbus A320. The first office officer had a total of 2,275 flying hours with AirAsia Indonesia.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/airasia/updated-statement-qz8501-as-at-1035pm-gmt7/10152668948908742

[This poster has been suspended.]

OleEskildsen
Ole Eskildsen 1
Of course, there is the explanation.
And they never looked out the window and saw a few clouds around, because at their altitude the air is so cold that they had frost on the windscreen.
Shall I go on?
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
That is a long shot... Further more there would be a message on the screen stating that it was turned off. Besides, once you are inside of it, then the radar is not going to do anything for you.... Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
AONeal79
AONeal79 0
Yes. I'm sure that's the culprit.

COME ON.
krschneider
Karl Schneider -6
Or maybe Jesus will fly out of my ass...
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
I doubt that will happen, but maybe Lucifer will :)
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
I didn't know you had a donkey.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Those winged donkeys!!!
zainulp
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Flight QZ8501: Airplane details

The missing AirAsia Airbus A320-200 airliner with the registration number PK-AXC, operating flight QZ8501, was only 6 years old.


http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2014/12/flight-qz8501-airplane-details.html
BajaFlyerDave
David Stein -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

AirAsia Flight From Indonesia to Singapore Missing, Airline Says

An AirAsia flight from Indonesia to Singapore is missing, the airline said in a statement.

"AirAsia Indonesia regrets to confirm that flight QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore has lost contact with air traffic control at 07:24hrs this morning," the airline said in a statement.








There are 162 people aboard the Airbus A320-200, Hadi Mustofa, an official of the transportation ministry told Indonesia's MetroTV, according to The Associated Press.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/airasia-flight-indonesia-singapore-missing-airline-says-n275696
zainulp
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

AirAsia Airbus A320 gone missing

An AirAsia Airbus 320-200 airplane carrying 162 passengers and crew from Indonesia to Singapore has gone missing on Sunday morning.


http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2014/12/airasia-airbus-a320-gone-missing.html
zainulp
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Bad weather brought QZ8501 down?

More than 9 hours after losing contact with the AirAsia Indonesia Flight QZ8501 en route to Singapore from Indonesia, search operations coordinated by Indonesia continues in the Java Sea.


http://www.aviationanalysis.net/2014/12/bad-weather-brought-qz8501-down.html
mpradel
Marcus Pradel -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Air Asia Flight QZ8501 missing

AirAsia Indonesia regrets to confirm that QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore has lost contact at 07:24hrs this morning.

https://twitter.com/AirAsia/status/549048915429830656
ssjan
Jan F -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Air Asia Indonesia flight missing

Lost contact with ATC. A320 from Surabaya to Singapore.

http://jansaviation.com/news.php?art=air-asia-indonesia-flight-reported-missing
matt12gauge
matthew haney 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

airliner denied request by ATC for higher altitude

Flight 8501 requesting altitude change from FL32 to FL38

http://tbo.com/ap/in-crowded-skies-lost-planes-request-for-new-path-denied-20141229/?page=1

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