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  • 41

Nonsense in the New York Times

Enviado há
 
Disoriented pilots and 90-degree turns on a flight into Chicago. Yikes! But did it actually happen? (www.askthepilot.com) Mais...

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joelwiley
joel wiley 6
I understand your point and agree with you. However, how else does one get one's name in the NYT on a byline? Simple Who, What, When, Where, Why of basic journalism just won't do. What's more important, accurate, factual reporting you your name in the paper?
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 5
Obviously the pilot was just dodging gunfire from the south side. My old neighborhood. Lol
LancairESP
LancairESP 2
Count the shots and run during the reload.
Former South-sider.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Yea, but it would be my luck I'd mis-count. LOL
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
Looks like you now got some mowing relief. Lol
preacher1
preacher1 1
#1 Grandson, but although he thinks he can now, he needs a few years to grow.LOL. Although, he hopped on my lap the other day once off the highway and he drove the car about a mile and turned it into the driveway. He's just barely 3.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
He'll be flyin for ya know it!!
preacher1
preacher1 2
He may be up for it. His daddy never had the Gumption. He got that from his momma.LOL
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 5
Keep writing them Patrick, I'll keep reading them!!!
jmilleratp
John Miller 3
The whole thing is pretty second hand, at best. It sounds like the "Frequent Flier" column is geared towards tales and tidbits rather than journalism. Still, anytime you're going to put something to print, you can certainly talk to someone knowledgeable like Patrick Smith who can give you feedback on whether a story sounds right or not.
Derg
Roland Dent 5
Patrick Smith is a very well respected aviation journalist. He has a commercial flight transport license and is rated on B747s and several others I would guess. The New York Times has no more crediblity than any other USA newpaper as far as I am aware. Iam not sure BTWESTON what your gripe is about here..could you expand further please?
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 1
If what you say is true, this must have been written tongue in cheek. It's presented as though the writer has never seen a flyin' machine and is riding in one for the very first time. A pilot can solve all the problems in the world,avoid even near collisions, even get there on time with all the luggage, but he's only as good as his last wheel chirping landing.
preacher1
preacher1 1
You have to read the article closely. Patrick did not write it, merely commented on it and posted it. It is written by an NYT reporter, knowing nothing about flying, reporting what a pax said
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Mark, you misunderstood.

Patrick Smith, the blogger who complains about the poor quality if the article, is the experienced and well-informed pilot.

The article in the NYT interviews a ill-informed passenger who exaggerated the incident or whose account of the incident was exaggerated by the writer of the article.

It would've been more appropriate for the NYT writer writing about an aviation to be more knowledgeable about aviation than a blogger. Ironically, in thus case the inverse was true.
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 1
Whoops! Missed that. I'll reread it. I must be tired and cranky.
btweston
btweston -4
Actually my screen name here is all lowercase. And the New York Times certainly does enjoy an outstanding reputation for journalistic integrity. Are they perfect? No. Am I? Pffft. In any event, here's some fleshing out, copied and pasted (with one edit) from another reply I wrote as you have made the same complaint as the other guy. Just pretend I was talking to you from the start:

That has nothing to do with what I wrote. He could be the captain of the starship Enterprise and co-author of the Bible for all I care. My point is that he seems to have it out for the Times, and I don't know why. He is mounting an attack of some kind against a fluffy little throwaway article (attributed quite clearly to some marketing guy who rides in planes from time to time). This, to me, is strange.

All of that should have been fairly obvious in my original comment.
ChrisMD123
ChrisMD123 4
To me, the reason to hold the New York Times to a higher standard has nothing to do with politics. It's because it IS the standard. In the US, we don't have a true "paper of record," but we have the Old Gray Lady, which stands as a pinnacle of journalistic integrity. For better or worse, the New York Times holds itself to a higher standard than the Cedar Rapids Gazette.

In this day and age, where it's so easy to pop onto this website or others and find years of flight data, it just seems lazy not to check whether or not these sorts of recollections align with any reality.

Also, it's just hilarious to imagine how ignorant somebody would need to be to think that you could mistake ORD for MDW...
LordLayton
Leighton Elliott 1
ChrisMD123......sorry to say but you are SO led down the garden path of BULLSHIT that I bet you couldn't count 123. bahahahaha
bentwing60
bentwing60 5
I suspect that the CAPS were intentional. Mine were.
Derg
Roland Dent 3
Oh well..btweston..I am sure you can see that angle..I can't.
CaptainFreedom
CaptainFreedom 2
90 degree bank....while low and slow? lol I don't think so. If this were true, it is a near certainty that the plane would have stalled out of the turn, and you would have got a really close up look at the ground.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Tis one thing with plenty of power but the low and slow is a wonderful way to bring on a stall. Ask the 214 crew.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 2
The cross section of an airliner is so much bigger than a small plane it makes turns seem steeper. At a grand and on approach you will never get to write about that 90. Lol
jmilleratp
John Miller 2
The whole thing is pretty second hand, at best. It sounds like the "Frequent Flier" column is geared towards tales and tidbits rather than journalism. Still, anytime you're going to put something to print, you can certainly talk to someone knowledgeable like Patrick Smith who can give you feedback on whether a story sounds right or not.
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 2
NYT at its best. Reading all the posts, it seems everything has been addressed. Certainly no reason to defend this trash article. And yes, this completely made-up fallacy of a story is no different than their other stories. One small piece of a giant liberal trash rag.
btweston
btweston 2
Now, you guys are aware that this is just some guy relaying a little story to a reporter for a little space-filling section of the publication, right?

This is not an attempt at investigative journalism. Before we try and smear the Times for... I don't know what this Patrick Smith guy's deal is... politics?... We should realize and appreciate that The New York Times is the best newspaper still in existence. We have nothing to gain by cherry picking and trashing little articles about some non-aviation professional's personal anecdotes.

Someone out there probably found this article to be amusing and then did the crossword. Big deal. We have no reason to get in a twist.
preacher1
preacher1 11
Well, I don't know what Smith's deal is either. He is just an ATP with credentials a mile long and a book or 2. Just some guy.
canuck44
canuck44 5
Right...and the NY Times is well known as being at least the Third or Fourth best newspaper in New York providing one doesn't count the WSJ, Investors Business Daily, The Village Voice, the Gotham Gazette, The New York Observer, Crane's Business and twenty-two others.
btweston
btweston -3
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. He could be the captain of the starship Enterprise and co-author of the Bible for all I care. My point is that he seems to have it out for the Times, and I don't know why. He is mounting an attack of some kind against a fluffy little throwaway article (attributed quite clearly to some marketing guy who rides in planes from time to time). This, to me, is strange.

All of that should have been fairly obvious in my previous comment.
bentwing60
bentwing60 4
BT, how would you like to be the subject of a "fluff piece" written by the food editor at The New York Rag. And then published. Journalistic integrity means just that, some form of due diligence that the story, as presented, was factual and realistic. "Seems like" is not a term that I would use as factual evidence that something egregious was occurring on the flight, or even an anomaly. I suspect the retraction will not be printed, or if it is, it will be at the bottom of the Op-Ed. page. The "little throwaway article" as published, questions the competence of folks who do what I do for a living. It also attributes no particular knowledge or skill level on the part of the author to make such a "seems like" assessment of their performance.
btweston
btweston -1
Here's the whole thing. Pretty benign.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/business/a-cackling-toy-monkey-in-the-next-seat.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1375804953-KfVM8lqSYkRIwD+KSqFyMg
tduggan2010
Tim Duggan 1
Hardly "benign". The "cackling monkey" was far more entertaining, and would have been fine as a stand-alone bit. His representation of the youngster being "over-caffeinated" was egregiously mean spirited, though.

But, why the author felt the need to toss in an obviously fallacious and exaggerated nonsense account about the Chicago "incident"? Column-inches to fill? He should have padded the toy monkey story.

It was spurious and insulting to professional pilots everywhere, with its ignorant inferences and aspersions. Any aviation professional can see it as baloney from the get-go.
LordLayton
Leighton Elliott 1
NY times is famous for trying to "enforce" their liberal scare tactics on everyone. Just try to take it in stride. :P
mrippe
mrippe 1
something has happened to the new york times.used to be that opinions or guesses or unsubstanciated events were listed as such.
now, it's anyones guess so it becomesnecessary to take articles with a grain of salt.
also,
a 90 degree bank at low altitude and slow airspeed would have th atrcraft sideslip into the ground.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
It's presenting a traveler's point of view. But it's not a blog.

You'd think the NY Times would have higher standards, and fact checked. Apparently journalism is a tough field right now.

Still, there's no excuse for such sloppy reporting.
preacher1
preacher1 2
ya thank?
LordLayton
Leighton Elliott 1
yup just like that show off pilot in that B-52 crash many yrs ago that we all see on videos.
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 1
I know we're talking about the NYT or for that matter most dead tree reporters, but wouldn't it be a good idea if the writer knew a smidgin about flying before creating an article about flying no matter what perspective he's reporting from.
preacher1
preacher1 1
you're living in a dream world, but it is a good idea.LOL
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 1
I smile when I sleep :-)
mrtrout
mrtrout -1
It still amazes me that so many Flight Aware visitors treat this site as a place to grind their political axes. The babble submitted to the column (a.k.a., an opinion piece) was no less ill-informed than the other ill-informed conversations we aviation buffs find ourselves in all of the time. If this column had appeared in the Cedar Rapids Gazette, we would not be discussing this post. But because it's in the NYT, some Flight Aware members are compelled to air their political convictions. Please, let’s limit our comments to topics that attract us to this site in the first place.
preacher1
preacher1 5
If you don't like what you see here, I do believe it is your right to NOT log into it and I would urge you to exercise that right and go back to trout fishing. If this response upsets you or if other comments here do, then I suggest you contact FA management.
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
The only one who could ever reach me.... was the son of a preacher man...
preacher1
preacher1 2
Have you been reached in the last few days or is that the title to a song I'm trying to remember? lol
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
preacher1
preacher1 1
I thought so. Lot's a years ago.LOL
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 4
It amazes me that someone with a whole five posts under his belt, over the course of two years, would march in here and start telling people what they should or shouldn't post about.
bentwing60
bentwing60 3
LordLayton
Leighton Elliott 1
Only reason it was brought up is that the NYT has gone from gospel to rag and there is no room in any good newspaper for obvious political persuation rederic on the author's point.. I'ts been biting them in their revenue butt for quite some time now for it.
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 1
There is a rumor thay are up for sale. Dead tree communication is fast falling out of favor. With it's demise will go the last vestage of investagative jornalism.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, The Washington Post just sold today, forcing the NYT to put out a statement that it WAS NOT for sale. That's generally a sure sign that somebody is looking at it.
mhlansdell00
Mark Lansdell 1
Nothing like the confirmation of a denial.

It's rumored that the Koch Brothers are looking at the Chicago Times and all their subsidiaries. I haven't heard who is looking at the NYT only that someone is.
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
And FYI, the Cedar Rapids Gazette has made appearances on Flightaware.
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Yeah they have great community of Czech 4th gen immigrants in Cedar Rapids. Even teach Czech in schools. I bet the Gazette has a Czech section too. La Grange in Texas has similar.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
Czech! I mean check...
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
They wore that out in West. They call it the Czech Stop, a place right off I-35 that offers every type of kolache imagineable. Hell they have fajita kolaches. Czechs-Mex?
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
That is really going to upset mrtrout.
Does Czech-Mex favor red, green, or paprika?
LordLayton
Leighton Elliott 0
Is an abortion in that area called a "cancelled Czech"? :P
bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Double Touche!
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
I always thought West was the major Czech community. Turns out, most of the towns located along the HWY 77 corridor, including La Grange, are Czech communities. Makes up most of central Texas

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